Feature #8550

Repair tanks

Added by badger over 5 years ago. Updated over 5 years ago.

Status:Closed Start date:01/26/2010
Priority:Normal Due date:12/31/2010
Assignee:Sickboy % Done:

100%

Category:Script
Target version:1.0.1
Component:sys_repair Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

Why I can not repair the tank with the help repair truck? Even if the tank had just torn up truck. By the way tanks are not enough fire extinguishing systems.

It would be great if the crew can extinguish the fire in the tank. And repair the truck could repair the not burning tanks.

ACE version 231


Related issues

related to A.C.E. for OA - Feature #2297: Damage system enhancements Closed 06/26/2009
related to A.C.E. for OA - Bug #9019: T-90 unmoved after repair Closed 02/11/2010
duplicated by A.C.E. for OA - Feature #8603: Repair System Tweaking Duplicate 01/28/2010

Associated revisions

Revision d08435df
Added by Sickboy over 5 years ago

~ Fixed: Repairvehicle could self-act on itself. Refs #8550

Revision f4f664cc
Added by Sickboy over 5 years ago

~ Added: Repair of wheels for non armor damage simulation vehicles. Refs #8550

History

Updated by Alex72 over 5 years ago

Confirmed. I could not repair tank at repair truck either.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

  • Priority changed from Normal to Low
  • Target version set to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Done on purpose.

May change, but for now it stays as it is.

Updated by sgtmoody1944 over 5 years ago

So as it stands, there is no way to repair a damaged tank?

Updated by Cossack8559 over 5 years ago

We can repair tanks in real life you know! what is the reason for not allowing us to repair tanks? just curious :)

Updated by KingHomer over 5 years ago

We will work on it, in some grade tanks will be repairable.

But a hull or turret penetration can't be repaired with a field repair. You see the point?

Updated by badger over 5 years ago

But for game, this point is not good.

Please, can you say, where I can change it for myself? (ACE addon name)

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

Just give us some time or find something on your own i'd say. We're working on it.

Updated by jasonnoguchi over 5 years ago

voted negative. never seen a tank being fixed out in the field by a truck in RL before.

Updated by Trracer over 5 years ago

Pasted my post on the forum.
For realism purposes then I think it should be removed for all vehicles (aircraft and ground vehicles). Maybe refueling and rearming times when near a fuel/ammo truck (and vehicle ammo box) could be longer too. As it is now, you can park a tank/arty gun near an ammo truck/box and have unlimited, almost instant, rearm.

Updated by Vipera over 5 years ago

I'd like to have ability to repair tank if it's not criticaly damaged. Or we need ability to tow tank into repair center (Heavy Factory). If factory is able to create tanks it will be able to repair them. :)

Updated by Alex72 over 5 years ago

Explained and now i understand as well. I thaught it was a bug first, but this is more realistic ofcourse. To keep the realism vs gameplay though there probably should be a solution wich i see the ACE team is working on so its all good.

EDIT:
Maybe having a certain container (models in game already) with "spare parts" wich has to be flown out with RAV Lifter? So you basically have to place out a "spare parts container" (module?) in your mission if you want to be able to field repair your tanks. Maybe together with a repair truck as well that someone has to drive out. All doable but needs some proper logistics planning to get it done.

I dont know how they are repaired in real life though and maybe this idea is stupid, but an idea never the less.

Updated by TheBigHerm over 5 years ago

Tanks were never fixed in sector, at least in the 1st Cav, but were towable. In fact, a tow bar was fastened and left on the front of the tank for emergency situations. Small things like a road wheel or tracks were and are often changed in sector after an area is clear. Hull penetrations are very rare now because of the reactive armor. The only time Ive ever seen a hull penetration on a tank is from an EFP on the underbelly. Ive never seen a turret penetration. 17 inches of armor plus DU (Depleted Uranium) is not normally something a soviet era weapon could punch through.

Updated by Alex72 over 5 years ago

Is it possible to fix the tracks only? If thats possible then maybe the repair truck can do that (it even has tracks on the back). And if the turret or hull is damanged then just abandon ship until a big ass vehicle enters ACE wich can tow the tank back to base where some sort of repair station can be setup.

Its ok for a mission to abandon ship and leave it there, but for the ongoing missions where logistics/engineering plays a vital part it would most definatelly be nice to be able to somehow fix the tanks. Either by towing them back to base and fully restore them or by flying/driving out gear.

Updated by KingHomer over 5 years ago

  • Due date set to 12/31/2010
  • Priority changed from Low to Trivial

And even than a tank can't be repaired in a few minutes. I see the point in repairing minor parts like engine or tracks if only light damaged. But a burnt engine can't be repaired in the field.

You can't say on the one hand you want and realistic armor penetration system and on the other hand tanks should be repaired within a few minutes. Where's the sense behind that?

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

Please add a Warfare-Repair-Mode. :D :D

Updated by TheBigHerm over 5 years ago

A good crew can change out a track in 10 minutes. If we are going for realism, the same should apply to the helicopters. Tanks can be repaired quicker than a helo, but you seem them things FLYING to chopper repair and leaving again within a few seconds. Road wheels are changed in sector in a matter of minutes. That is one of the reasons tankers go to school. To be able to fix problems like that in less than favorable conditions.

Im sorry to seem so standoffish, but being a retired medic with the M1 Abrams, you hate to see your baby playing second fiddle.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

I think you have some good points Herm, would you be so kind to setup a suggestion ticket with your ideas/views on the Repairing of vehicles, incl air ?

Updated by Smashk over 5 years ago

I think cutted tracks or light damaged engines could be repaired in the field, but to exchange an engine it needs a garage, and thatswhy we need an ARV "Armoured engineering and recovery vehicles" like the [[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:M88_Recovery_Vehicle]] to drag them to the garage.
Smaller vehicles could get lifted with Blackhawks, Chinooks or the Sikorsky CH-53, which we don't have yet.
And aircrafts have to get lifted onto a heavy truck and brought to a garage. So we would need a heavy truck.
Maybe the MH-6/AH-6 or the MQ-1 predator can get lifted by an UH-60 or bigger.

Updated by Alderman over 5 years ago

Thank you for the reply to TheBigHerm (LCpl. Snyder [3rd MD]) post Sickboy and realizing that on a area related to armor it would make sense listen to a medically retired combat veteran who served as a medic and tank crewman vs others who post here and say things they have no background in and fail to state they don't have the background in this area.

-Capt. Alderman [3rd MD]

Edit: Sickboy the post you requested on this from TheBigHerm has been deleted by KingHomer. We are requesting you bring it back as it was not a complete duplicate and contained much detailed information much of which is not contained in this issue. Reference issue number 8603.

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

More of a feature now.

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

  • Tracker changed from Bug to Feature

Updated by CarlGustaffa over 5 years ago

It doesn't have to be a "garage", an invisible "repair point" would suffice and misson designer could make it look whatever suits the purpose. Some ideas of such a point:

1) Can place multiple repair points without causing problems, but can only service one vehicle at a time.

2) Repair points should be side specific, especially on the more advanced non car items. I.e. I would have to put a west repair point in order to repair an AH64 or M1A2 tank, but unlike the repair trucks, it shouldn't be able to repair russian vehicles there. Russian 'car' might be ok though.

3) Time to repair each damaged part is based on the complexity of the vehicle. Not sure if 'cost' would do the trick, or we need to have a separate array of ie reparraywest = [ [["M1A2"],[["Hull",8],["Engine",12]] ]...,[["LAV25"],...] ]. An ACE variable ACE_repspeedfactorwest = 0.04 could give mission flexibility to go for good realism values, or help achieve side balance if a side has lack of hardware. Planes and helis would take a long time to fix, similar to MBTs. IFVs and other vehicles would take far less.

4) A rescue vehicle is needed for heavy stuff like MBTs, but lighter stuff could be lifted back home.

5) Obviously we don't want realistic repair times. If so the repair can be omitted completely as no server would be able to run mission for that long. Tanks now with realistic MG loadouts seem to "rule the battlefield" despite missions lasting hours instead of days. So damage taken should really hurt more, in terms of repair speed. That is more rewarding for those infantry who dare stand up against it using a volley of AT shots. So for this I suggest:
Plane: 30 minutes.
Heli: 25 minutes.
Tank: 20 minutes.
Statics: Cannons, TOW Pods, AA Pods, AA gun: 15 minutes.
IFV: 10 minutes.
APC: 5 minutes.
Static: Searchlights, mounted machineguns and grenade launchers typically: 2 minutes.
Car: 1 minute.
Bike: Instant.

6) The system should be able to handle outright wrecked vehicles. Not realistic off course, but it adds a few gameplay elements: At the cost of double the time to repair, you're occupying a repair point for a long while. Enemy (PvP games) might send in troops to a wreck site to secure it so that the other side is not able to salvage their vehicles. You can have "balanced CTI maps" with a given amount of vehicles to use and protect instead of Warfare vehicle mayhem.

7) To supplement such a system, you'd need to consider other things as well. Such as tank crew being able to repair tracks on a tank but if interrupted able to continue instead of starting from scratch. Anyone should be able to repair blown out tires on a car, at least one off. Vehicle crews should be able to repair tires of wheeled APCs, not because it is possible, but because you'd normally be able to run on damaged wheels. Everyone should be able to repair tires of a mountainbike, not because it is possible, but because it is easy to do and the bikes seems to take damage far too easily from low FPS and uncontrollability (no brakes).

8) Also to supplement, some damage types should be handled better than what is done by the engine. I.e. the engine of a chopper is far to vulnerable to small arms fire, and the engine stops instantly. Normally you'd have a fluid leak where you might still have control over the chopper for quite some time until fluid reservoir was emptied. Auto rotation does help on this a lot, but it's rarely enough to get you out of the hot zone.

Now these are all wild and crazy ideas, but I'm not fond of the idea of "realistic tank loadouts" for battles lasting an hour instead of a mission lasting several days, in a tank that is near indestructible by infantry at no cost for the operator, without there having to be a heavy penalty to rebalance things. It has to be also about game balance, considering there are tactics for infantry to ruin a tanks day that is "impossible to do" in Arma without a heavy load of scripting.

Updated by luckyhendrix over 5 years ago

No it's getting too far , I think it's out of mod's scope these kind of thing would only be usefull in domination-like maps. Quick field fiw would be fine like , changing a Stryker's tire or a M1A1 tread.

Updated by Alex72 over 5 years ago

I thaught ACE was about a balance of realism & gameplay? So now there cant be realistic damage without bit simplified repair for the sake of gameplay? I was also thinking of those playing domination style when it comes to being able to repair it fully somehow. But being able to fix the tracks at least in the field would be a very nice feature imo.

Then again if its supposed to be full realism - then im totally ok with that it cant be repaired. I just never saw ACE is about full realism. I remember the words "We try to keep a balance between realism and gameplay. We try not to sacrifice either in name of the other."

Updated by CarlGustaffa over 5 years ago

I've no issues with fixing tracks or wheels. But the moment realistic loadouts were given it broke balance imho. Balance has to be restored somehow, and I think not being able to repair hull and turret with repair trucks aids that. As it is now a tank is a siege machine, able to sit still and "kill for hours", without redrawing for reammoing like you would have to with vanilla tanks.

Remember, infantry in real life usually has more options against tanks than they have in game. You can't blind a tank by taking out its sensors, there is no fire simulation going on, no rubble to be handled in order to set a trap, and no means of getting to an elevated position. Anti tank weapons are more or less useless. Tanks have "unlimited" .50 cal ammo. Tank vs infantry? It's just no fun anymore... With instant repairs for such a mean machines it goes from not fun to utterly hopeless...

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

Agreed, better not have instant repairs, but a too complex system isn't possible atm either.
We're looking into options.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Category set to Script
  • Status changed from New to In progress
  • Assignee set to Sickboy
  • Target version changed from Planned (Needs Contributors) to 1.0.1
  • % Done changed from 0 to 40

Just finished Alpha of a basic repair/rearm/refuel system
source.

Current Specs

  • It allows different durations and limitations based on config properties
  • It allows the repairing of Tracks and Wheels, on the armor damage simulation enabled vehicles. (At this time it is the ONLY parts that can be repaired on these vehicles)
  • It allows vehicles to be rearmed beyond the standard 1 magazine per weapon (bis bug)
  • It allows refuelling of vehicles. (Still must implement check for "Engine broken", incase that uses fuel 0 cheat)

Timetable for full (100%) repair

  • Air: 20 minutes
  • Tanks: 15 minutes
    • Only tracks can be repaired atm
  • Other vehicles: 10 minutes

Rearming a single magazine is set to 10 seconds.

Modifiers

  • Amount of damage / fuel / magazines, scales the time linearly. So 10% damage on air vehicles, means 120 seconds repair time.
  • Repairing tracks or wheels is 50% of repair time
  • Refueling is 50% of repair time

Properties to vehicleclasses and magazineclasses can be applied to have different behaviour on different vehicles ec.

ATM the functionality is only available when using the custom ACE repair vehicle ACE_repairTest

Working on some more details and tweaks :)

Updated by TheBigHerm over 5 years ago

Outstanding!

Updated by M1n1d0u over 5 years ago

what ! 20min for a repair ?

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

M1n1d0u wrote:

what ! 20min for a repair ?

Please explain.

Updated by M1n1d0u over 5 years ago

ATM a full vehicle repair is set to:

  • Air: 20 minutes

I don't understand that ? with a repair truck we need 20min of a complet repair ?

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

M1n1d0u wrote:

ATM a full vehicle repair is set to:

  • Air: 20 minutes

I don't understand that ? with a repair truck we need 20min of a complet repair ?

Yes, that's the initial / current setting for Air type vehicles in the Alpha version of the repair system.
The mentioned times are for 100% damage. The time is scaled linearly with the amount of damage. So 10% damage, means fix in 120 seconds.

Updated by M1n1d0u over 5 years ago

oh oki that's sound good and i have only a request , can you make a tank support ? like this (it's a tchek tank) http://olivier.carneau.free.fr/kits/peco/vt72b/VT72B_73.jpg
if you use a repair truck you have 10min
if you use a repair tank you have 5min but only for light damage

EDIT : us recovery tank (http://www.milspray.com/images/public_relations/static_display_M88A2_Tank.jpg) the base it's an abrams (M1A1)

Updated by TheBigHerm over 5 years ago

That is an M88. Its not a gas turbine engine like the abrams. It is a big, ugly, loud diesel. If you are going to take one of those into sector, you better have a butt load of security. They are very slow and very loud.

Updated by SimonC979 over 5 years ago

Sickboy wrote:

M1n1d0u wrote:

ATM a full vehicle repair is set to:

  • Air: 20 minutes

I don't understand that ? with a repair truck we need 20min of a complet repair ?

Yes, that's the initial / current setting for Air type vehicles in the Alpha version of the repair system.
The mentioned times are for 100% damage. The time is scaled linearly with the amount of damage. So 10% damage, means fix in 20 seconds.

10% of 20mins = 120 seconds, not 20. :)

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

SimonC979 wrote:

10% of 20mins = 120 seconds, not 20. :)

whistles ;-)

Updated by luckyhendrix over 5 years ago

it's seem that when a HMMWV has a tire disabled but otherwise intact , it can't repaired. Also the repair truck can repair it self thus it's a bit overpowered.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Priority changed from Trivial to Normal
  • % Done changed from 40 to 50
  • Component set to sys_repair

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

Ty, self-repair resolved for next update. Tire-repair of non armor-damage-simulation vehicles, is being looked at.

Updated by JDMT over 5 years ago

Does an M1A1 have the power to pull a broken down M1A1 back to the FOB? Or do you need to bing in the M88A2?

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Status changed from In progress to Feedback
  • % Done changed from 50 to 70

How are you guys experiencing the Repair truck? Does it give you the options you were looking for ?

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

I'm guessing silence means good? :)
Before hitting 1.0 i'm at least planning to make seperate vehicles for each task (repair, rearm, refuel), clones of each side's respective trucks.
So that the mission maker still has a choice between the original trucks, or the modified ones with the repair module, with free choice of which features are available.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Closed
  • % Done changed from 70 to 100

Implemented: http://dev-heaven.net/projects/ace-mod2/repository/revisions/ee3dd642ac06f32bc3724bcbe80c5f099ffc7ca8
Please create new tickets with specific issues incase they arise :)

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