Support #8447

Wounding leads to huge amounts of dropped ammo/items sometimes

Added by dslyecxi over 5 years ago. Updated over 3 years ago.

Status:Closed Start date:01/24/2010
Priority:Low Due date:
Assignee:HomerJohnston % Done:

60%

Category:Script
Target version:-
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

Somehow, dozens upon dozens of objects can be spawned from a unit. Possibly hundreds in some cases. This will lead to a localized FPS drop (ie, anyone nearby will see their FPS tank if they look in the direction of these dumped objects), a server FPS drop, and, in severe cases, complete lock-ups for players.

We saw this on build 222.

The first time, it seemed to manifest from enemy Russian troops in a river on Podagorsk. Everyone who went into a specific area (near a river) was getting extremely low FPS and then freezing up. I was able to observe that if I stood still and looked in certain directions, my FPS was fine. If I turned towards the river, it degraded. Upon moving towards the river I spotted a ton of objects floating in it in large masses. I then froze and had to end-task ArmA2 to recover. The objects looked like they were ammo pouches, rifles, etc, probably numbering in the hundreds of items. We had engaged enemies in the river and there were corpses floating in other areas of it.

Note that we had 60+ players in this mission. I suspect that if it is something happening x-many-times per client, we ran into a truly worse-case scenario because of this.

After that issue happened, I attempted to repro it in singleplayer. This is what I found, after placing squads of Russian troops in a river and shooting at them from the shore:
1. In SP, without the wounding module, I saw nothing unusual
2. Once the wounding module was on, I observed that units would drop collections of gear upon being shot sometimes, particularly in the upper chest. This would happen even if they were not killed by the shot - once the bullet hit, they would immediately drop a collection of gear around them.

Later on, we had another mission (coop) degrade severely in performance, forcing us to call it off. This is presumed to have been another case of this bug showing up (though unobserved by me directly).

Finally, we had a mission where I saw this happen on dry land. I fired at a USMC unit, hit them in the upper chest with a UMP (IIRC), and they immediately dropped a collection of gear at their feet. They then ran away and several other collections of gear appeared at intervals along their path. My FPS quickly began to degrade, and we called the mission shortly after to prevent people from crashing/freezing due to the bug. I have attached screens of this instance. You can see that a few shots from me resulted in him dropping 3+ sets of personal gear at where he was wounded, and then several more sets as he ran away. At this point there were only 10-15 people on the server.

Also note that in the first instance described, client report files contained sections like this:

Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Client: Object 81:19 (type Type_67) not found.
Client: Object 81:19 (type Type_91) not found.
Client: Object 95:17 (type Type_67) not found.
Client: Object 95:17 (type Type_91) not found.
Client: Object 90:26 (type Type_67) not found.
Client: Object 90:26 (type Type_91) not found.
Client: Object 50:25 (type Type_91) not found.
Client: Object 69:12 (type Type_67) not found.
Client: Object 69:12 (type Type_91) not found.
Client: Object 50:25 (type Type_67) not found.
Client: Object 50:24 (type Type_67) not found.
Client: Object 50:23 (type Type_67) not found.
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-E:2 REMOTE
Client: Nonnetwork object 17ee8000.
Client: Nonnetwork object 17eecc00.
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-K:1 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-K:1 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-K:1 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-K:1 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-K:1 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-K:1 REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: O 1-1-K:1 REMOTE
Client: Object 2:1436 (type Type_96) not found.
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data
Buffer to small - nowhere to write the data

That last buffer line would repeat hundreds of thousands of times until the mission ended or the client ended A2.

one_pile.jpg (719.6 kB) dslyecxi, 01/24/2010 09:52

leaving_a_trail.jpg (621.6 kB) dslyecxi, 01/24/2010 09:52

ammo_drop_bug1.jpg (757.6 kB) kungtotte, 01/24/2010 10:29

ammo_drop_bug2.jpg (773 kB) kungtotte, 01/24/2010 10:29

repro_water_wounding.FDF_Isle1_a.pbo (10.8 kB) dslyecxi, 01/25/2010 05:16

repro1.jpg (159.8 kB) dslyecxi, 01/25/2010 05:16

repro2.jpg (188.7 kB) dslyecxi, 01/25/2010 05:16

repro3.jpg (172.7 kB) dslyecxi, 01/25/2010 05:16

double.jpg (231.5 kB) Xeno, 01/25/2010 23:59

double2.jpg (184.4 kB) Xeno, 01/25/2010 23:59

ammo_bug_jan_30.RPT (12.8 kB) dslyecxi, 01/31/2010 23:18

ammo_bug_ace_only_2.jpg (113.2 kB) dslyecxi, 01/31/2010 23:18

acest_co_63_tungsten_jabiru.Chernarus.pbo (315.9 kB) dslyecxi, 01/31/2010 23:18


Related issues

related to A.C.E. for OA - Bug #8376: SYS_Ruck Killed EH Overrides others Closed 01/22/2010
related to A.C.E. for OA - Bug #9529: Units lose all their gear (not the pistol) IMMEDIATEY whe... Closed 03/10/2010

History

Updated by Xiathorn over 5 years ago

"Later on, we had another mission (coop) degrade severely in performance, forcing us to call it off. This is presumed to have been another case of this bug showing up (though unobserved by me directly)."

I observed this in the mission in question. A considerable FPS drop occured for both myself and my group-member as we approached a riverbank - dropping object detail improved this temporarily, but as we moved closer the issue became more apparent. In and surrounding the water were a number of dead AI, having been shot by other players 10+ minutes previously, surrounded by multiple pieces of equipment. One near the riverbank had three AKs in front of him, whilst another was swimming in the water immune to our fire because of the pile of 6+ weapons & assorted items blocking our shots.

The mission continued to degrade, and as dslyecxi said we had to call it.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Assignee set to Xeno
  • Target version set to 1.0.1

Updated by kungtotte over 5 years ago

I'm uploading some screens of the gear-piles found in that river on Podagorsk.

There's an additional pile to the right of that one in the river, but I didn't get any screens of it unfortunately and it seemed like this one was the main FPS-killer as my framerate bottomed out when I was looking at it (ending up at 6-7 compared to my normal ~30).

There was a 'black hole' of poor performance starting approximately 30 meters before the river and ending about 30 meters after it, and it got much worse if you were facing the river itself causing several people to crash out.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

To quantify "several people to crash out", I think we had ~12-14 people lock-up because of that (basically, most of the squad of players that was in that area at the time, plus elements from other squads).

Also, like I mentioned, it dropped the server performance substantially when it was happening.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

  • Priority changed from High to Low

Sorry to say, but I'm not able to reproduce this.

I've played allready a lot of missions with wounds enabled (even with up to 50 players) and never have seen this behaviour and I get feedback from a mission maker allmost daily that uses wounds.

From your screenshots it seems you are using other addons or some scripts in the mission that cause that behaviour as wounds doesn't touch any weapons or magazines!

For a repro I need the mission and BugZ

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Assignee changed from Xeno to Evil_Echo

At 6thsense we too run with Wounds enabled since some weeks and have yet to come across the issue.
I think, if it is related to the Mod, it should be related to Rucks ?
I think that does spawn weaponsholder, maybe unable to contain all the items, or so ?

Full rpt's could be of use.

Updated by Evil_Echo over 5 years ago

  • Assignee changed from Evil_Echo to Rommel

Agree - need full report.

This might be related to recent change in the ruck Killed XEH to add further support for other mods/missions. Locking issue might be occurring because spawn allows for multithreading vs call, which does not.

Asking that coder to look into this.

Updated by SphinX over 5 years ago

Saw this happening as well while playing SP.

Forced AI into a pond, then they all dropped their kits back to pistol.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

SphinX wrote:

Saw this happening as well while playing SP.

Forced AI into a pond, then they all dropped their kits back to pistol.

This is vanilla ArmA 2 behaviour :)

Updated by Evil_Echo over 5 years ago

  • Assignee deleted (Rommel)

Updated by SphinX over 5 years ago

Xeno wrote:

SphinX wrote:

Saw this happening as well while playing SP.

Forced AI into a pond, then they all dropped their kits back to pistol.

This is vanilla ArmA 2 behaviour :)

Yeah, but the amount of ammo boxes and grenades didn't really fit the amount they were carrying.

Unless the AI found a way to carry 50 200round ammo boxes and didn't let me in on it.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

I think I know why you might not have seen this - it seems that on, for instance, Utes, the dropped gear shows up on the bottom of the sea. In Podagorsk, on the river in the repro mission, it shows up on the surface.

I updated us to ACE2 v225 and then created this repro mission. I have tested it in SP and MP with similar results.

There are a few things you can find out:
1. If you shoot at a unit with an RPG, and hit that RPG multiple times, you can cause their gear to drop without killing or even wounding them.
2. If you unload on a unit with lots of fire, you can get many sets of gear to appear. This may be compounded if multiple players are shooting at the same unit. The first unit in the playerlist has unlimited ammo to help test that.

If you need further info, let me know. This was seemingly destroying our missions on Saturday, so we are very keen on helping to get it resolved before next Saturday.

Updated by Rommel over 5 years ago

I know ArmA2 does this by default. Any gear dropped at all in water, duplicates itself hundreds of times. I have an issue on it in the CIT. With no resolve for a while. Happened in ArmA1.
Somewhere a drop is occurring, but the effect is being duplicated a hundred fold because of the BIS issue.

At least that is my theory.


Though that happening on land is very unheard of. For ammo to be dropped as such, it must be via actions, or through a weapon holder.
Any chance for a non FDF isle repro mission?

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

Perhaps A2 has some issues with this by default. Still, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that we've run missions in this kind of terrain before in earlier ACE2 versions, with dead EI in the water, and never had the freezing/massive item drop issue as we've had in the latest versions of ACE2.

We had three coop missions that were killed by this issue on Saturday. In each instance we saw huge piles of gear before the point where people crashed/froze or the server fps dropped/mission had to be ended.

Also, please refer to the screenshot example where this happened on dry land. Does the BIS "water issue" extend to that as well? I have never seen that happen before, apart from that version of ACE2, on that day.

edit:
Just saw your edited post. Re: non-FDF repro - perhaps tomorrow. The repro posted is the exact area of terrain where we ran into the issue, in the exact river, at roughly the same place.

Updated by Evil_Echo over 5 years ago

The mission file will help a lot in determining the true problem here. A couple of us are looking at this from different angles to see what is going on.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

rocko and I tested it now with vanilla ArmA 2 1.05 on a dedicated server, no addons.

Guess what happened when AI was swimming in a lake (Pobeda dam that was)...

AI lost their weapons and we saw multiple weapons instead of just one !!!!

(in our case being only two players on the server the weapons doubled)

So this is a vanilla ArmA 2 bug and should be filed in CIT or reported directly to BIS.

I've added two pictures.
The same happened when we shot them.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

Ok, so you've shown that it happens in vanilla ArmA2 to some extent (though I don't see the same quantity of items dropped). Fair enough, I don't see a point in arguing that considering the next bit.

Please explain how this is happening on land, though. If you read the initial report, it very clearly shows that a similar issue is happening on dry land. Considering how I have never once seen that happen before in vanilla ArmA2, and it only recently showed up in ACE2 (in game-breaking form), I would like to see some kind of proof that it's a vanilla A2 issue. I've provided proof that it happens in ACE2 already. I'll work on repro for that.

Perhaps next time you should consider the full bug report before rejecting it, considering the severity of the issue and the proof included in the original post. If you want to debunk it, debunk the entire thing, don't just cherry-pick it.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

  • Status changed from Rejected to Feedback

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

  • Tracker changed from Bug to Support

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

@Sickboy:

Move to CIT tracker please.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

dslyecxi wrote:

Ok, so you've shown that it happens in vanilla ArmA2 to some extent (though I don't see the same quantity of items dropped). > Please explain how this is happening on land, though. If you read the initial report, it very clearly shows that a similar issue is happening on dry land. Considering how I have never once seen that happen before in vanilla ArmA2, and it only recently showed up in ACE2 (in game-breaking form), I would like to see some kind of proof that it's a vanilla A2 issue. I've provided proof that it happens in ACE2 already. I'll work on repro for that.

Perhaps next time you should consider the full bug report before rejecting it, considering the severity of the issue and the proof included in the original post. If you want to debunk it, debunk the entire thing, don't just cherry-pick it.

First of all, you have not tested it on an official ArmA 2 island, maybe Podaga has some problems and the island returns water for the engine on some spots although there is land.
Second, there is exactly not one piece of code in ACE that drops AI weapons and mags.
Third, as we were only two players on the server the ammount of weapons could only double as it seems to be a locality problem inside the ArmA 2 engine and weapon drop gets multiplied by the number of players.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

"First of all, you have not tested it on an official ArmA 2 island, maybe Podaga has some problems and the island returns water for the engine on some spots although there is land."

Land issue was experienced on Sahrani.

"Third, as we were only two players on the server the ammount of weapons could only double as it seems to be a locality problem inside the ArmA 2 engine and weapon drop gets multiplied by the number of players."

Well, my findings disagree with you here.

I was able to get up to 7-10 sets of gear by myself, in SP, through ACE2. I could get similar counts in MP.

In the 60-player mission cited, as you can see in the screenshots by kungtotte, there are HUNDREDS of items. Not 60 - HUNDREDS.

I find it highly suspect that we have never had this happen before in our ArmA2 gaming, and suddenly had it happen so many times on a single day, after an ACE2 update. On dry land as well, as noted.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_EXap_4jxU
Video of another instance of weird gear-dropping behavior. As you can see, an M249 gunner just spontaneously drops a duplicate set of gear. Same Saturday session. Same version of ACE2.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

Sahrani? I think I see Porto too. That means you guys are using CAA1?

Please reproduce with only ACE/ACEX/CBA, and attach rpt of server and of at least a single client that experienced the issue.
I mean full RPT, with startup included, especially the Updating base classes part.

Updated by tcp over 5 years ago

It is very hard to dupe this on land. It is not like we haven't tried and given this ticket a fair amount of attention. Can you confirm that wounds disabled prevents the issue on land since you have better luck creating the behavior?

Updated by Evil_Echo over 5 years ago

Just because vanilla BI has an issue does not mean that ACE is not somehow aggravating the situation.

IMO this is some kind of locality problem - an event handler is spawning on all clients vs just the one where someone died. An orderly test with temporarily removing one module or another that had killed XEH handlers should resolve if ACE has any role in the problem. Until then, we should keep an open mind.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

Sickboy wrote:

Sahrani? I think I see Porto too. That means you guys are using CAA1?

Yes. I don't think you see Porto there, unless it's from some mission I was unaware of (I don't think we've had a Saturday mission on Porto so far).

Please reproduce with only ACE/ACEX/CBA, and attach rpt of server and of at least a single client that experienced the issue.
I mean full RPT, with startup included, especially the Updating base classes part.

We can attempt this. Perhaps this coming Saturday we'll strip everything else off and just run those.

It is very hard to dupe this on land. It is not like we haven't tried and given this ticket a fair amount of attention. Can you confirm that wounds disabled prevents the issue on land since you have better luck creating the behavior?

It is very hard to duplicate it. As to being able to confirm it is related to wounds, we can certainly try to get better confirmation on that. Perhaps it isn't. It's very hard to say. The only thing we can really say with confidence at this point is that it does most definitely happen (including weirdness like that depicted in the latest video, where a player just randomly drops a load of gear for no reason), even if the exact circumstances that cause it are hard to nail down.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

dslyecxi wrote:

The only thing we can really say with confidence at this point is that it does most definitely happen (including weirdness like that depicted in the latest video, where a player just randomly drops a load of gear for no reason), even if the exact circumstances that cause it are hard to nail down.

I still think that it is one of your other addons causing this or a script in the mission or a combination of the addons that the players used and the server. But we can only guess.

That's why we need RPT files and the mission to check it or to reproduce it, yet we have nothing except some vague description, pics/video and a report about a vanilla ArmA 2 bug.

Currently this problem is unique to ShackTactical as we have no other reports about it.
We have invested allready some time trying to reproduce it with ACE only but failed (except the vanilla ArmA 2 bug that you've claimed is an ACE bug too).

I'm not saying "gear drop on land" might not be caused by ACE, but the chances are very high that it is not related to ACE at all as we, like I've written before, have exactly no other report from other groups or servers about it.

As far as I remember there was some other addon which caused weapons and magazine drops like this but I haven't found anything about it yet (VFAI ???)

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

Xeno wrote:

Currently this problem is unique to ShackTactical as we have no other reports about it.
We have invested allready some time trying to reproduce it with ACE only but failed (except the vanilla ArmA 2 bug that you've claimed is an ACE bug too).

Please ditch the condescending attitude - it's unnecessary and certainly not helpful. I don't see the need to yet again explain the circumstances behind this, and the statistical improbability of us seeing this happen so many times on one day without it being related to something that changed between our last ACE2 version, and our current one. You speak of a "vanilla ArmA2 bug" that represents itself in one specific manner - I showed evidence of it happening differently than you described, to quite a severe extreme, with pictures to back this up. Absolutely regardless of anything else, there are suddenly gear-related issues showing up - caught on video and screenshot - on dry land.

I'm not saying "gear drop on land" might not be caused by ACE, but the chances are very high that it is not related to ACE at all as we, like I've written before, have exactly no other report from other groups or servers about it.

It would be very easy for a group to not notice it, and just attribute the poor performance to ArmA2 in general. It would also be easy for it to happen somewhere at a distance from players, and have it degrade the server to the point of crashing without anyone ever figuring it out. This would not be the first game-crashing ACE-related bug that wasn't immediately noticed by the broader community - look at ACE1 and the locality issues in the plane effects scripts. Nobody from the ACE team caught that. No public servers caught it. It took us (ST) awhile, but we finally picked up on it, and had to patch it out ourselves. The fact that you are so ready to dismiss this as us being incompetent is frustrating. If you want to assume that, fine - but if you do so, please just back out of the bug report in general and let more open-minded devs look at it instead. Bug reporting should not be a conflict between you and us, and that's the attitude you have brought to this. It's tiring and unnecessary.

As far as I remember there was some other addon which caused weapons and magazine drops like this but I haven't found anything about it yet (VFAI ???)

We use the following.
ACE
ACEX
ACEX_PLA
ACEX_SM
CAA/OAC

Plus these island addons:
Afghan Village
Avgani
Japahto
Isla Duala
Namalsk
Panthera
Quesh Kibrul
Razani
Podagorsk
Sbrodj
Schmafelden
SAP_Everon/clutter

We have zero, repeat, zero AI addons or anything extraneous like that. Aside from the island addons, we don't have anything else apart from ACE and CAA stuff. As I already mentioned, we'll cut everything else and try with just ACE.

Updated by tcp over 5 years ago

Screenshots do not constitute a bug report. Most of your posts have been to convince us how serious you are as if we didn't believe you. You haven't provided anything asked of you.

Xeno wrote:

For a repro I need the mission and BugZ

Sickboy wrote:

Full rpt's could be of use.

Evil_Echo wrote:

Agree - need full report.

Rommel wrote:

Any chance for a non FDF isle repro mission?

Evil_Echo wrote:

The mission file will help a lot in determining the true problem here. A couple of us are looking at this from different angles to see what is going on.

Xeno wrote:

First of all, you have not tested it on an official ArmA 2 island, maybe Podaga has some problems and the island returns water for the engine on some spots although there is land.

Sickboy wrote:

Please reproduce with only ACE/ACEX/CBA, and attach rpt of server and of at least a single client that experienced the issue.
I mean full RPT, with startup included, especially the Updating base classes part.

tcp wrote:

It is very hard to dupe this on land. It is not like we haven't tried and given this ticket a fair amount of attention. Can you confirm that wounds disabled prevents the issue on land since you have better luck creating the behavior?

Xeno wrote:

dslyecxi wrote:

The only thing we can really say with confidence at this point is that it does most definitely happen (including weirdness like that depicted in the latest video, where a player just randomly drops a load of gear for no reason), even if the exact circumstances that cause it are hard to nail down.

I still think that it is one of your other addons causing this or a script in the mission or a combination of the addons that the players used and the server. But we can only guess.

That's why we need RPT files and the mission to check it or to reproduce it, yet we have nothing except some vague description, pics/video and a report about a vanilla ArmA 2 bug.

Currently this problem is unique to ShackTactical as we have no other reports about it.
We have invested allready some time trying to reproduce it with ACE only but failed (except the vanilla ArmA 2 bug that you've claimed is an ACE bug too).

I'm not saying "gear drop on land" might not be caused by ACE, but the chances are very high that it is not related to ACE at all as we, like I've written before, have exactly no other report from other groups or servers about it.

As far as I remember there was some other addon which caused weapons and magazine drops like this but I haven't found anything about it yet (VFAI ???)

Xeno's post was not condescending. For as an important as this issue may be to you, you've done nothing to point us in the right direction in duping and finding this bug. You've provided nothing but argument and conjecture and neglected the most basics of testing. Things that should have been included in your first post are in your last and it is still incomplete. From post to post, the information you provide changes and the facts contradict each other. If for no other reason, this ticket should be closed for being incomplete.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

I see no point in arguing this in here. I've provided a repro mission and comments on what happens in it - a mission which provides results which do not jive with the "You will get one set of gear per client" expected results. As far as further repro goes, I have plans to do that (tonight and Saturday), so if you're looking for a reason for why that isn't already up, it's as simple as that there hasn't been an opportunity for it yet.

The description of the issues have been provided for the simple fact that since the issue has only been observed recently, it is certainly reasonable to describe something on the chance that someone's changes might be reasonably associated with that, thus warranting further inspection. As you might guess, it's a bit hard to repro something that happens pretty rarely and under unpredictable circumstances (yet has the possibility to devastate a mission when it does happen), so if you're slamming us for not having a pretty packaged perfect repro out the day you requested it... sorry, but that doesn't appear to be how this one in particular works.

As to whether any given individual is bringing a shit attitude to this, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on those points.

As to the comments about "information you provide changes and the facts contradict eachother", I'm not sure where you get that from. Nothing has changed with regards to my reporting of this issue, aside from making additional clarifications when there seemed to be confusion, none of which I see as contradicting the rest of it.

In any case - feel free to ignore this until you have the repro you think you need.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Rejected

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

Attached are a mission, report file, and screen of the issue. This was experienced on a coop mission, about 50-60 mins or so into it. This occurrence was in water.

Also note that this happened with a 'default' ACE2 load, as requested, which includes:
CBA, ACE, ACEX, ACEX_SM

As to the whole "This is an ArmA2 bug", perhaps it is, but we've never seen it aside from in recent ACE2 updates, and afaik noone has reported it happening on land in vanilla ArmA2 (which we observed previously). We'll continue testing (to include testing in vanilla A2), but for now, this is what we have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOB2v_UNnTE
This video shows what happens. It looks like as soon as you transition to the 'swimming' anim, it drops a huge pile of gear. To extrapolate a bit from that, it makes me wonder if there are instances when a player can be shot (ie, on land), and their animation switches to "something else" unexpectedly, which could presumably trigger this to start occurring even on land. Are there any aspects of ACE2 that monitor animation states that may have unexpected functionality if they hit an unanticipated animation?

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

Not monitoring in ACE AFAIK.

Only animation changes or additions are in ACE

anims_fastswitch
anims_movement (containing prone AT firing)
anims_reload
anims_turn
anims_weaponsway
sys_fastroping
sys_weaponrest

and in ACEX

c_veh_uh60
c_veh_t72

You could try to disable all these and test over again

Updated by tcp over 5 years ago

Server RPT might help.
Was ACE wounding enabled? Other optional systems?

It's normal for vanilla A2 to drop gear in water and for it to duplicate per player. However, it's not normal for gear to drop as soon as you go into the water, it normally takes a bit of swimming around.

How many players went in the water and had their gear drop? Did it drop immediately for every player?

On a side note, it seems that when you drop all your stuff in the water, you are able to keep a pistol and a couple of mags, however the weapon selection is bugged, so when you pick up a rifle later, the switch weapon action is bugged until you drop all your weapons. This is probably not related, however.

Updated by dslyecxi over 5 years ago

ACE wounding was enabled. I don't believe any other special optional systems were on, but you can check the mission to be sure (I didn't create it).

Probably 5-10 people had their gear drop in such a fashion. Several of them are captured in that vid, and when you see it, each time it appears to be instant. Other gear drops happened offscreen near other boats. I would guess that I saw at least 5 distinct piles, and each pile could be dozens of dupes (or more).

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Assignee set to Sickboy

I'll be giving this a spin this weekend. Let's see if im able to reproduce it somehow.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • % Done changed from 0 to 10

Have yet to be able to reproduce :(
Also members of 6thSense.eu Community say they don't remember coming across it either.
Without being able to reproduce it, this is one tough b*tch to tackle :O

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Target version changed from 1.0.1 to 1.0.3

Updated by HomerJohnston over 5 years ago

I really have no clue what I'm talking about, but I was wondering if the stamina system in any way interacted with the BIS stamina system? I seem to recall that vanilla ArmA makes you drop gear if you are "tired" while swimming (i.e. swimming makes you tired, just like running).

I have a vague memory that if you sprint around the shore for a couple minutes, and then run into the water, you'll drop gear faster than if you stop, rest, and walk into the water. I guess it might be worth investigating, although it still may be completely un-helpful to the problem.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

Actually that's some interesting info Homer.

Do you feel up for doing some tests to see if you can reproduce the issue with your mentioned details ?

Updated by HomerJohnston over 5 years ago

I'd like to do some tests, yes. I don't know what timezone you're in or if I could have much contact with you until the weekend. I'm in western canada, GMT-7:00 hrs I think. If you're not around when I get home from work in ~9hrs, I will attempt to run a test with some ShackTac members tonight to see if it might be worth investigating further.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • Assignee changed from Sickboy to HomerJohnston

HomerJohnston wrote:

I'd like to do some tests, yes. I don't know what timezone you're in or if I could have much contact with you until the weekend. I'm in western canada, GMT-7:00 hrs I think. If you're not around when I get home from work in ~9hrs, I will attempt to run a test with some ShackTac members tonight to see if it might be worth investigating further.

My apologies, I meant to hand the test off to you, not test it with ya ;)
I'm on GMT + 1:00 btw. I'd be around shortly in 9 hours :D

Updated by ViperMaul over 5 years ago

HomerJohnston,
I should be available tonight to help with testing. Come find me. I will be on Skype and the Shacktack TS2 and TS3 after 8pm CST.
I tested this some time ago with tcp. But the feedback was seemed to say that this issue only happened when a group of people were online (perhaps 10 or more) the number is not really known.

Updated by HomerJohnston over 5 years ago

Small update: When dumping gear in the water in both ArmA2 with 0 mods and with all ACE mods, it does seem to drop 1 set of gear per client reliably. I connect 4 clients to my server, I take one of them and run around until he is tired, then run straight into the water. this is what happens:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l7/kylewilcox/arma22010-02-1622-14-47-88.jpg

RPT messages. I dumped 3 of 4 soldiers into the water and received this:

Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-A:1 (Homer Johnston) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-A:1 (Homer Johnston) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-A:1 (Homer Johnston) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-A:1 (Homer Johnston) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-B:1 (Homer Johnston (2)) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-B:1 (Homer Johnston (2)) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-B:1 (Homer Johnston (2)) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-B:1 (Homer Johnston (2)) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-D:1 (Kyle (2)) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-D:1 (Kyle (2)) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-D:1 (Kyle (2)) REMOTE
Remote entity want to supply: B 1-1-D:1 (Kyle (2)) REMOTE

There is one set of gear spawned by me, and a few milliseconds later it seems the other 3 clients cause me to spawn a set of gear each.

This still does not explain the duped gear on land bug, or why there seems to be at least 100 pieces of gear duped in some of Dslyecxi's photos, and it is still entirely possible that there is more than one issue compounding this problem.

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

Nice one Homer, thanks a lot!
So until now, your testing results are equal between ArmA 2 vanilla and ArmA 2 with ACE.
Don't know if there's a CIT ticket already, maybe we should setup one.

Updated by HomerJohnston over 5 years ago

  • Target version changed from 1.0.3 to 395
  • % Done changed from 10 to 20

Yep; I unfortunately can't think of any tests to do that might reproduce the duped gear on land yet, or how to cause it to dupe extra times ... but I am keeping the issue in the back of my head. I'm wondering if it's at all possible that the wounding module is sort of creating another soldier, and the game is dumping extra gear for two men, but I bet if I knew more about how the wounding worked I would rule that out. I also wonder if lag somehow made someone's game think that another tired person was in water, causing that soldier to drop gear on land, but I don't think the netcode is THAT bad, haha.

I think for now, our best bet will be to hope BIS fixes what is known so far, and then we just wait & see if it magically fixes all of these dupe problems, or if the other issues persist. Dslyecxi & I will make sure this gets in the CIT or reported to BIS soon.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/8447#note-16

Sets of gear spawned per client allready reproduced three weeks ago with vanilla ArmA 2.

Updated by Xeno over 5 years ago

HomerJohnston wrote:

Yep; I unfortunately can't think of any tests to do that might reproduce the duped gear on land yet, or I'm wondering if it's at all possible that the wounding module is sort of creating another soldier, and the game is dumping extra gear for two men, but I bet if I knew more about how the wounding worked I would rule that out. I also wonder if lag somehow made someone's game think that another tired person was in water, causing that soldier to drop gear on land, but I don't think the netcode is THAT bad, haha.

Wounding doesn't create any other units it just handles hits and plays animations and doesn't touch weapons/magazines.

But we have some other components that create an extra unit for special gear handling for example, though those units get removed immediately again.

I've took a quick look at the mission provided by dslyecxi.

It might also be caused by changing gear in the init line of every playable unit in the mission:
"nul = [""pltr"",this] execVM ""f\common\@ShackTac_assignGear.sqf"";"

Maybe because of this we were not able to reproduce gear drop on land as it is one of the worst ways to change gear for a unit in a mp mission (specially in JIP enabled missions).
If for example a JIP client connects he will run all the init lines again, means the init lines from all units (+ all other allready processed init lines even init lines from deleted objects).

There's also a bug in ArmA 2 (was allready in ArmA 1) which can happen when a lot is going on, means many players, high server load, many scripts running on the client. What happens is that a client then sometimes doesn't connect or synchronize properly resulting in scripts not running correctly or scripts that don't even start at all (mission scripts).
You can easily detect those players when they write in the side chat, you will not see a group sign before their names.

Furthermore in the RPT there were some clients with wrong ACE or CBA versions, might also cause problems.

Still no other reports from other groups with higher player numbers!
This is what I'm still waiting for.

Updated by HomerJohnston over 5 years ago

  • Target version changed from 395 to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Thanks, Xeno. I thought that was all the wounding module would do, but wasn't sure. I'll look into the modules which create units, even though I realize I may not come up with anything.

I'll look into the affected mission(s) some more, but S.T. locks the server at mission start so it's not anything due to JIP and I have a gut feeling any gear assign scripts will have locality taken into account properly, so it's possible this will be another dead end.

For now, there is agreement that there is a problem BIS needs to fix. I'm leaving this ACE ticket open until either: A) land-duping is reproduced and fixed, or B) BIS fixes the water issue, and Shack Tac subsequently doesn't encounter the issue for several sessions. Let's hope this happens.

Updated by CarlGustaffa over 5 years ago

Maybe Shack Tac could could try to replay the mission (unless each session is a new mission), on the problematic island, using a better way of handling player loadouts than using the init line, ref Xenos comment on that issue. If they now spawn a couple of loadouts instead of hundreds, it means that vanilla bad behavior kicks in but without being multiplied due to init line loadouts.

I've never experienced any of this, so this is just me thinking out loud :)

Updated by Sickboy over 5 years ago

  • % Done changed from 20 to 60

Xeno traced the issue to the Stamina system.
We've removed the changes that were linked to it.

This will not solve the BIS bug with spawning multiple mag/weapon copies when you are tired in the water, and drop your weaps/magz.
But at least ACE doesn't cause you to loose your weapons so quickly.

I want to thank everyone involved, been a long road but think this is nailed :)

Updated by rocko about 5 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Closed
  • Target version deleted (Planned (Needs Contributors))

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