Feature #7537

Increase the atmoshpere of foul weather (mostly rain, wind and thunder storms)

Added by 76 over 5 years ago. Updated over 2 years ago.

Status:Assigned Start date:12/30/2009
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:

0%

Category:Visual
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version: First affected ArmA II version:
Reproduced by another DH user:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using some Mods:No BIForumURL:
I am using: NGUrl:
Reproducible for you:No WIKIurl:
Related to content of DLC:

Description

The weather in game needs to be more immersive...

- The sound of rain is far to quite though visually its ok, more visual rain may kill game play (not sure).
- Thunder storms effects are too small both visually and audibly, you barely notice them except for some occasional lighting.

Fierce rain/storms should nearly kill your ability to fight effectively, in a big storm/down pour I want to feel lost and unsure.


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #9469: Ambience Audio option seperate from Effects for SP only. Assigned 03/08/2010

History

Updated by 76 over 5 years ago

Maybe change the title to

'Improve the Immersive Effect of Weather'

Updated by kju over 5 years ago

  • Subject changed from Improve the sound of weather (mostly rain, wind and thunder storms) to Increase the atmoshpere of foul weather (mostly rain, wind and thunder storms)
  • Category changed from Gameplay to Visual
  • Status changed from New to Assigned
  • Affected ArmA II version deleted (1.05.62017)

Updated by kju over 5 years ago

  • Tracker changed from Bug to Feature

Updated by CarlGustaffa over 5 years ago

Hmmm... Unsure... If volume is all you want, buy an amplifier :) Personally I think the system is ok.

  • It appears by this thread, http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=92538 that many expect hurricane like conditions. Engine is not up to the task which requires: Dramatic wind effects that affects flight dynamics, tosses stuff up in the air, and would cause particle systems to look horrible.
  • It also appears that many expect a full blasting storm like thunderstorm whenever there sliders are maxed. Arma weather doesn't work like that. It varies wind, thunder activity, and rain over time.

To test "as bad as it gets", try to set maximum overcast and forecast and check how it looks like. Varies over time. Now add a repeating trigger with condition field: time %2 > 1 and on activation field: 0 setRain 1; setWind [20,0, true]; Toss in a vehicle and set its damage to full, for good measure of the particle effects.

Preview again and check if it doesn't appear "better". You can even see the engine "at work" as it constantly tries to lower the rain until it is reset to full every two seconds. Okay, a delay might be nice here BIS, to avoid very short client loops :)

Now lets test the immersion:
  • Place another unit nearby, and make him crawl slowly onto your position. I noticed mine only a few meters away, by hearing alone. And that with no other battle noises, no addons used.
  • Do a slow crawl on various surfaces. You can barely hear yourself.
  • Stand up and walk on different surfaces. Feels pretty ok to me.
  • Enter a building. Notice anything with the rain?
  • Go under a big tree. Notice anything with the rain?
  • See some smoke being affected by wind (but sadly not flares, those needs manual work).
  • Check the grass bend in the correct direction.

Give me one game that delivers more immersion :)

As for "just the occasional thunder", are you kidding me? You might be an american from tornado alley, but supercells aren't exactly common for the most part of the world. I tend to prefer "cute little single cell thunderstorms with some bangs tossed on every now and then". That matches the very weak wind conditions that Arma2 produces in it's weather system, for already explained reasons. So for that, I still thinks the current thunderstorms are too powerful wrt frequency of thunder clashes. Also note that often irl lightning tend to start before rain, and in very gentle winds (at least where I'm from). The wind that sets in once precipitation picks up, is because of the precipitation forcing the air to make room for itself. For this in a mission, we need full manual control.

Only thing I'd really would like would be stereo samples of rain. Easy to make with current ones (if steady in loudness), just phase shift a channel and you're good to go. I tried this earlier, but ended up in frequent crashes, probably due to memory issues, so I scrapped the idea.

To summarize:
  • Sound loudness already works brilliantly, you're just not getting the "correct" (expected) weather simply by setting sliders.
  • Fully pouring rain over time is something the engine is reluctant to do by itself, you have to help it out by looping scripts. BIS, can you please put a delay on this?
  • Bad weather shouldn't be worse than they currently are since engine just can't tackle the rest of the effects needed.
  • Even though it is thunder nearby, it's not necessarily a "storm", which defines wind speeds outside of Arma2's reach.
  • At gale force winds (20m/s, 72 km/t, first hurrican level), the particle system appears quite inadequate.

Don't get me wrong. I want a shitload of more weather controls, but I can't agree that what it currently produces isn't immersive enough.

Updated by 76 over 5 years ago

Has nothing to do with volume Carl, even the crappiest of speakers/headset will create enough volume. And stop thinking everyone here or BI forums wants CoD/BF2 style... they are on an A2 forum... benefit of the doubt...

Thunderstorms need far more thunder and lightning, not volume. Not every storm needs to be the biggest the engine can produce but I've never seen anything close to even a medium storm.

The heaviest of rain doesn't muffle my radio, footsteps (rain, vehicles, weapons fire etc, not a volume issue.

Crawling slow (or even fast) shouldn't be heard in heavy rain on any surface, unless you've never experienced really heavy, and no I live in Victoria, Australia and we get savage rain,thunder and lightning.

Tornadoes... wtf are you talking about... who mentioned tornadoes and particle effects?) I didn't mention particle effects (I created the ticket) stop making this seem like we are asking the world (tornadeos, tin roofs flying around in the wind (particle effects)) just because you think its fine the way it is. I think you're experiences with storms is the minority.

Again...
-Thunderstorms need far more thunder and lightning (sound and light), not volume.
-The heaviest of rain doesn't muffle my radio, footsteps (rain, vehicles, weapons fire etc, not a volume issue.

Asia
Australia
South America
North America
Aficra

They all get massive storms... Europe is not the majority of the world.

Updated by CarlGustaffa over 5 years ago

Not sure how mentioning Tornado Alley as a generally bad weather place turned into a request for tornadoes? I think you misunderstand me. I'm talking about the regular smoke generating particle system failing badly when winds are brought up to the stormy weather conditions you seem to desire (which does involve high winds).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale

Take a readout of the winds in Arma generated with a pegged slider. I'm getting Beaufort 3 on a relatively steady basis.For short periods of time it can go up to Beaufort 5, ever so slightly touching 6, but none on a steady basis. The kinds of storms you are looking for is all the way down on Beaufort 8 through 11 with hurricanes starting at 12.

Wind readings are supposed to last ten minutes, so in order to have an actual storm reading, you'd need Beaufort 10 or above constantly for ten minutes.

Read the right columns for sea and land conditions. As these things cannot be done in Arma, such storms shouldn't even be attempted. Even at Beaufort 5 (setWind [20,0,true]), the particle system begins to break up.

Now, you can have cumulunimbus building up producing thunder, without having an outright storm going on. Try to think of the Arma2 pegged slider as an overcast with small single cell cumulunimbus developed above it, instead of a low pressure driven or frontal thunderstorm. And that kind of weather system causes the conditions we see in Arma2 (varying rain conditions, showers, rarely if ever staying maxed for a prolonged time), which seems perfectly reasonable to me regarding realism.

So as Arma can't tackle the consequences (by modeling the sea and land conditions) of stormy winds, anything else would have to be scripted. But for me having an interest in weather, I suspect it would fail badly. I've tried myself, but. With ACE ballistics, you'll have a hard time trying to hit anything at some distance at 10-20m/s crosswind, even with a regular 5.56 M4/M16 ACOG rifle.

"-Thunderstorms need far more thunder and lightning (sound and light), not volume."

I disagree, since what Arma tries to model is not stormy conditions that produces those kinds of thunderstorms, but something of much less intensity (which I happen to think is still too much).

"-The heaviest of rain doesn't muffle my radio, footsteps (rain, vehicles, weapons fire etc, not a volume issue."

Again I disagree. It shouldn't affect radio at all, since radio is on a separate volume control. Also I think of them as an ear plugin radio (two types can't be modelled, and it wouldn't serve much of a point). I've done my share of crawling in mud or heavy undergrowth in heavy (maybe not to your standards) rain, and it's far from silent. Especially the cursing of the brass don't tend to go unnoticed when you thought it would :) With setRain forced (instead of producing variable shower intensities, like default), the system does a reasonably good job.

The sound of thunder could be rumbling for a longer time, but would then have to be longer between each, to prevent "sound card overflow" (like during FFAR firing)? Some distant rumbling as well, maybe in stereo. Or maybe the sound source could be moved rapidly around producing a pseudo 3D effect (force doppler off though).

Do I want the storm effects you're mentioning? Yes, but not at the cost of loosing all realism associated with it due to engine limitations.

Updated by 76 over 5 years ago

CarlGustaffa wrote:

Not sure how mentioning Tornado Alley as a generally bad weather place turned into a request for tornadoes? I think you misunderstand me. I'm talking about the regular smoke generating particle system failing badly when winds are brought up to the stormy weather conditions you seem to desire (which does involve high winds).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale

Take a readout of the winds in Arma generated with a pegged slider. I'm getting Beaufort 3 on a relatively steady basis.For short periods of time it can go up to Beaufort 5, ever so slightly touching 6, but none on a steady basis. The kinds of storms you are looking for is all the way down on Beaufort 8 through 11 with hurricanes starting at 12.

Wind readings are supposed to last ten minutes, so in order to have an actual storm reading, you'd need Beaufort 10 or above constantly for ten minutes.

Read the right columns for sea and land conditions. As these things cannot be done in Arma, such storms shouldn't even be attempted. Even at Beaufort 5 (setWind [20,0,true]), the particle system begins to break up.

Now, you can have cumulunimbus building up producing thunder, without having an outright storm going on. Try to think of the Arma2 pegged slider as an overcast with small single cell cumulunimbus developed above it, instead of a low pressure driven or frontal thunderstorm. And that kind of weather system causes the conditions we see in Arma2 (varying rain conditions, showers, rarely if ever staying maxed for a prolonged time), which seems perfectly reasonable to me regarding realism.

So as Arma can't tackle the consequences (by modeling the sea and land conditions) of stormy winds, anything else would have to be scripted. But for me having an interest in weather, I suspect it would fail badly. I've tried myself, but. With ACE ballistics, you'll have a hard time trying to hit anything at some distance at 10-20m/s crosswind, even with a regular 5.56 M4/M16 ACOG rifle.

"-Thunderstorms need far more thunder and lightning (sound and light), not volume."

I disagree, since what Arma tries to model is not stormy conditions that produces those kinds of thunderstorms, but something of much less intensity (which I happen to think is still too much).

"-The heaviest of rain doesn't muffle my radio, footsteps (rain, vehicles, weapons fire etc, not a volume issue."

Again I disagree. It shouldn't affect radio at all, since radio is on a separate volume control. Also I think of them as an ear plugin radio (two types can't be modelled, and it wouldn't serve much of a point). I've done my share of crawling in mud or heavy undergrowth in heavy (maybe not to your standards) rain, and it's far from silent. Especially the cursing of the brass don't tend to go unnoticed when you thought it would :) With setRain forced (instead of producing variable shower intensities, like default), the system does a reasonably good job.

The sound of thunder could be rumbling for a longer time, but would then have to be longer between each, to prevent "sound card overflow" (like during FFAR firing)? Some distant rumbling as well, maybe in stereo. Or maybe the sound source could be moved rapidly around producing a pseudo 3D effect (force doppler off though).

Do I want the storm effects you're mentioning? Yes, but not at the cost of loosing all realism associated with it due to engine limitations.

You're making out I'm asking for things that will kill the engine and thats not true, I don't think you're understanding me... most likely my fault as I don't explain things very well :)

I guess all I can say is vote against it :\

Updated by zGuba almost 4 years ago

  • Operating system deleted (Vista 64 bit)
  • Graphics card deleted (GTX260 OC)
  • Graphics card driver version deleted (195.62)
  • CPU deleted (E8600 @ 4GHz)
  • Mainboard chipset deleted (nForce 780i)
  • Audio card deleted (Please specify!)
  • Size of OS swap file deleted (Please specify!)

Updated by Magician almost 4 years ago

76 wrote:

The weather in game needs to be more immersive...

- The sound of rain is far to quite though visually its ok, more visual rain may kill game play (not sure).
- Thunder storms effects are too small both visually and audibly, you barely notice them except for some occasional lighting.

Fierce rain/storms should nearly kill your ability to fight effectively, in a big storm/down pour I want to feel lost and unsure.

no sure about kill your ability to fight effectively. But Arma CO more wildness wind needed, and in Operation Arrohead the storm must have lithinig but no rain

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