Bug #70342

GSh-301 mistakes

Added by Xenomorph over 4 years ago. Updated about 2 years ago.

Status:Resolved Start date:01/12/2013
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:Goliath86 % Done:

100%

Category:-
Target version:Next full patch

Description

The GSh-301 is used on the Su-25, which is a mistake: it should have the GSh-30-2 with 250 rounds. The GSh-30-2 has about twice the firing rate of the GSh-301 (~3000 rpm).

The cannon on the Mi-24P is the GSh-30-2K, which has two fire rates: 300 and ~2500 rpm.

Evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-30-2

http://www.combataircraft.com/en/Military-Aircraft/Sukhoi/Su-25-Frogfoot/

This also coincides with data from Eagle Dynamics.

History

Updated by Jastreb over 4 years ago

Confirming information.

Weapons available include a double-barrel 30mm cannon with 250 rounds (5 1 second bursts)
It is armed with one twin barrel 30mm gun in the bottom of the fuselage with 250 rounds

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/su-25.htm

Solution:

Twin(?) 2A42 @ 300 (LO) and 3000 rpm (HI) in the config? Not sure how to get twin though, but I guess you will figure that one out.

Updated by Xenomorph over 4 years ago

Treat it as a single gun with 3000 rpm, which is how it works in real life anyway. The gun works on the Gast principle, meaning that the recoil of one gun cocks and reloads the second. This reduces the wear and heat buildup of a single barrel, not unlike gattling guns.

It is not the same as the 2A42, which is the gun used by the BMP-2, Mi-28, Ka-50 and Ka-52. They are both 30mm yes, but very different rounds. The GSh-30-2 would fire the "B_30mm_AP" ammo (same as the Mi-24P's GSh) and not the "B_30mm_HE" ammo of the GSh-30-1 of the Su-34.

Updated by Jastreb over 4 years ago

Umm 250 round magazine @ 3K rpm...what do you think how long will that last? I think two fire modes as seen on 2A42 cannon would serve well and is closer to real ( 5 and 1 sec bursts ).

Actually it uses HEI ammo as seen here:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/modern_fighter_gun_effectiveness.htm

Maybe for the sake of gameplay use same ammo as GAU8/A uses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

The Russian Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-30 is a similar class of weapon, although it is lighter with a higher fire rate, but has a lower muzzle velocity and overheats faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-6-30

It was fitted to some Su-25TM aircraft, but subsequently replaced with the GSh-30-2 twin-barreled cannon of the original Su-25

Updated by Groove_C over 4 years ago

It's just a config change to add the possibility to swith from 300 to 2500 rpm like already done for 2A42 on BMP-2 or BTR-90.
Shouldn't be time consuming at all.

Updated by Xenomorph over 4 years ago

That site also only describes the GAU-8 as using HEI, when in fact the typical combat mix is 4 rounds API and one round HEI. Keep in mind as well that fighters tend to carry HE shells, since they are likely to use them against other aircraft. All the aircraft listed there are multirole or fighters, and focuses on the capabilities of various rounds against air targets.

It fails to mention the БР-30-ГШ (sometimes just called BR) round used by the GSh-30-2 for armor-piercing purposes.
http://tech.yax.su/docvasweaponvas12vassamolet.html
http://aviaros.narod.ru/9a623.htm
http://russianammo.org/Russian_Ammunition_Page_30mm.html

Only the GSh-30-2K has select fire. The problem is that the sound file is that of a fast-firing cannon, so it would sound terribly out of place for a gun firing much more slowly. A new fire sound will need to be found for it.

If it helps, here are the configs I've been using in my own mod.

class GSh302 : CannonCore {
magazines[] = {"750Rnd_30mm_GSh301", "250Rnd_30mm_GSh302", "750Rnd_30mm_GSh302"};
modes[] = {"manualfire", "close", "short", "medium", "far"};
class manual;
class manualfire : manual {
sound[] = {"\Xeno_TGWCustom\sounds\GSh302_loop", db10, 1, 1200}; //new sound for faster firing cannon
reloadTime = 0.02;
soundContinuous = 1;
};
class close : manualfire {
showtoplayer = false;
soundContinuous = 1;
};
};
class GSh302K : GSh302 {   //correct Mi-24P cannon
displayName = $STR_TGW_DN_GSH302K; //see string tables later
initspeed = 960;
magazines[] = {"750Rnd_30mm_GSh302", "750Rnd_30mm_GSh301"};
modes[] = {"HighROF", "LowROF", "close", "short", "medium", "far"};
class HighROF : manual {
displayName = $STR_DN_GSH302K_MODE_HIGH; //see string tables later
sound[] = {"\Xeno_TGWCustom\sounds\GSh302_loop", db10, 1, 1200}; //new sound for faster firing
reloadTime = 0.023;
soundContinuous = 1;
};
class LowROF : HighROF {
displayName = $STR_DN_GSH302K_MODE_LOW; //see string tables later
sound[] = {"\Xeno_TGWCustom\sounds\GSh302_single", db10, 1, 1200}; //new sound for slow fire
reloadTime = 0.2;
soundBurst = 0;
soundContinuous = 0;
};
class close : HighROF {
showtoplayer = false;
soundContinuous = 0;
};
};
class 750Rnd_30mm_GSh301;
class 750Rnd_30mm_GSh302 : 750Rnd_30mm_GSh301 { //AP version of the previous mag
displayName = "30mm 750Rnd";
ammo = "B_30mm_AP";
};
class 250Rnd_30mm_GSh302: 750Rnd_30mm_GSh302 {
displayName = "30mm 250Rnd";
count = 250;
};
    <Key ID="STR_TGW_DN_GSH302K">
      <German>GSh-30-2K</German>
      <English>GSh-30-2K</English>
      <Italian>GSh-30-2K</Italian>
      <Spanish>GSh-30-2K</Spanish>
      <French>GSh-30-2K</French>
      <Czech>GŠ-30-2K</Czech>
      <Russian>ГШ-30-2K</Russian>
      <Polish>GSh-30-2K</Polish>
      <Hungarian>GSh-30-2K</Hungarian>
    </Key>
    <Key ID="STR_DN_GSH302K_MODE_HIGH">
        <German>2600 U/min</German>
        <English>2600 rpm</English>
        <Italian>2600 muniz./min</Italian>
        <Spanish>2600 rpm</Spanish>
        <French>2600 c./min</French>
        <Czech>2600 ran/min</Czech>
        <Russian>2600 в/м</Russian>
        <Polish>2600 st./min.</Polish>
        <Hungarian>2600 rpm</Hungarian>
    </Key>
    <Key ID="STR_DN_GSH302K_MODE_LOW">
        <German>300 U/min</German>
        <English>300 rpm</English>
        <Italian>300 muniz./min</Italian>
        <Spanish>300 rpm</Spanish>
        <French>300 c./min</French>
        <Czech>300 ran/min</Czech>
        <Russian>300 в/м</Russian>
        <Polish>300 st./min.</Polish>
        <Hungarian>300 rpm</Hungarian>
    </Key>

These obviously modify some stats existing in the game. The Mi24_P has it's weapons change to have "GSh302K" and "750Rnd_30mm_GSh302" instead of "GSh302" and "750Rnd_30mm_GSh301", while the Su-25 was changed to have "GSh302" and "250Rnd_30mm_GSh302" instead of "GSh301" and "180Rnd_30mm_GSh301".

Updated by Radioman over 4 years ago

Xenomorph wrote:

The problem is that the sound file is that of a fast-firing cannon, so it would sound terribly out of place for a gun firing much more slowly. A new fire sound will need to be found for it.

The thing about Vanilla sounds is that they're already pretty interchanged, so you could set the gun's sound to be pretty much anything.

Use the sound for the M2, the GAU-12, the 14.5mm KPVT, etc. Then a sound mod can take care of the rest, should the user have one.

All else appears fine.

Updated by Xenomorph over 4 years ago

Good point. The BMP-2's 2A42 cannon sound would do good as a substitute.

Updated by Groove_C over 4 years ago

To make it easier for us all, I think an additional/optional mag with 250 rounds Gsh-30-2 should be created for Su-25.
Same ammo type, sound and firing speed as on Mi-24P using GSh-30-2.
Similar way as with additional/optional mag with 520 rounds GSh-23L for Mi-24V to replace default 1470 rounds mag YaKb-12,7.

Updated by Xenomorph over 4 years ago

None of the MI-24's in the game (Mi-24D, Mi-24V, Mi-24P) have the GSh-23L, only the Mi-24VP, Mi-24VM and Mi-35M are thus equipped, and the Mi-24VM and Mi-35M are quite obvious as they have clipped wings.

Updated by Goliath86 about 2 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Resolved
  • Assignee set to Goliath86
  • Target version set to Next full patch
  • % Done changed from 0 to 100

Fixed in current A2:OA beta patch (pre-EOL patch)

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