Bug #4866

AT weapons vs choppers/planes are not lethal (enough).

Added by 76 over 5 years ago. Updated over 2 years ago.

Status:Assigned Start date:09/27/2009
Priority:Normal Due date:11/01/2011
Assignee:Dwarden % Done:

0%

Category:Gameplay
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version:1.63 Beta First affected build:
Reproduced by another DH user:Yes First affected ArmA II version:
I am using some Mods:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using: BIForumURL:
Reproducible for you:Yes NGUrl:
Related to content of DLC: WIKIurl:

Description

Obs
When you hit an aircraft with a SMAW, it won't kill it.
But instead disable it (same as a stinger or similar).

Exp
Choppers/planes should be seriously damaged from even a single AT hit.

YT video

Repro
  1. Load attached mission
  2. Use RPG vs hovering UH60

Note
Most annoying when you actually manage to hit one it the air.

When a SMAW will destroy a light armoured land vehicle with one hit,
I can't imagine how an aircraft can survive the same punishment.

CIT_4866_AT_weapons_vs_aircraft.sqm - repro (3.3 kB) alef, 12/08/2009 22:43

CIT_4866_AT_weapons_vs_aircraft.utes.7z (1.2 kB) kju, 08/10/2010 13:49


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #5684: Some choppers take very low damage from AT rockets Duplicate 11/06/2009 12/06/2009

History

Updated by 76 over 5 years ago

Should of included LAW's and RPG's soz

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Subject changed from SMAW vs Aircraft to AT weapons vs Aircraft
  • Due date set to 10/27/2009
  • Status changed from New to Assigned
  • Reproduced by another DH user set to No

What probably happens, is what you also see with ground vehicles at times when you hit it for lethal damage; it will explode in about 5-10 seconds. Or will the plane continue for longer until it crashes into the ground?

Updated by 76 over 5 years ago

It will make it drop out of the sky (same as a stinger/strela) but won't actually make it explode on impact as it probably should... its not a big deal :)

PS hope you guys get that 5-10 second delayed explosion for land vehicles sorted or at least make it so you get your points for it :) (its amounts to cash in warfare and crCTI)

cheers fireball thumbs up

Updated by NoUseForAName over 5 years ago

I think more of it has to do with the type of warhead most AT weapons use. Typically shaped charges are used in AT weapons, which affect a very small part of the vehicle mainly to disable it...not destroy. AA weapons use fragmentation charges that "pepper" the aircraft with shrapnel (although there are frag AT warheads). Either way I agree it should be tweaked, but I think a lot of it comes down the damage modeling on vehicles, which is obviously lacking.
just my 2cents

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 10/27/2009 to 01/27/2010
  • Priority changed from Normal to Low

Updated by Momo over 5 years ago

I made duplicate bug report, didnt see this one. So i copy my report to here:

If you shoot an RPG on a flying Black Hawk, he takes very vew dammage. Reproduction: Put a flying Black Hawk in the editor, put yourself as RPG-Gunner 100 Meters away and set a "Disembark"-Waypoint for the chopper near you. When the chopper starts getting slow and tries to land, he is an easy target for the rpg, but even after two hits he wont go down.

Same happens with Venom, Cobra and Mi8. I did not test other choppers.

Theres a video in my duplicate report, i dont have it on disk anymore.

Updated by kju over 5 years ago

  • Due date deleted (01/27/2010)

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Tracker changed from Feature to Bug

Updated by alef over 5 years ago

  • File CIT_4866_AT_weapons_vs_aircraft.sqm added
  • Due date set to 12/22/2009
  • Priority changed from Low to Normal
  • Reproduced by another DH user changed from No to Yes
  • CPU changed from Please specify! to n/a

With 60902. YT video

Updated by zGuba over 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 12/22/2009 to 03/06/2010
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.04.59026 to 1.05.62017

Config / Model structure balance broken there

Updated by kju almost 5 years ago

  • File CIT_4866_AT_weapons_vs_aircraft.utes.7z added
  • Subject changed from AT weapons vs Aircraft to AT weapons vs choppers/planes are not lethal (enough).
  • Due date changed from 03/06/2010 to 11/01/2010
  • Assignee set to Dwarden
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.05.62017 to 1.53 BETA
  • Audio card set to Please specify!
  • Size of OS swap file set to Please specify!
  • I am using some Mods set to No
  • I am using set to CO (A2+OA)
  • Reproducible for you set to No

Updated by 77 almost 4 years ago

  • I am using deleted (CO (A2+OA))

Updated by 77 almost 4 years ago

  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.53 BETA to 1.59.79384

Updated by Fireball almost 4 years ago

  • Due date changed from 11/01/2010 to 11/01/2011
  • Reproducible for you changed from No to Yes

Updated by 77 over 3 years ago

Playing AAS, SMAW'd [HEAA) a Mi17 twice... it just spat a bit of black smoke and continued on its way.

2x HEAA form a SMAW kills a T72.

Updated by maturin over 2 years ago

An RPG won't ever make a chopper straight up explode, people.

A Stinger has a larger warhead than handheld AT rockets, and in a more dangerous fragmentation configuration.

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

Try reading the ticket header again..

Choppers/planes should be seriously damaged from even a single AT hit

Updated by i76 over 2 years ago

maturin wrote:

An RPG won't ever make a chopper straight up explode, people.

A Stinger has a larger warhead than handheld AT rockets, and in a more dangerous fragmentation configuration.

I really like how you only refer to the RPG... a grenade on a rocket... which would still disable a chopper.

So... would you like to tell me what a SMAW "wouldn't" do to a chopper... designed to destroy bunkers/hard structures... it would decimate a chopper.

And in ArmA if a SMAW kills a BMP with one shot, a T90/M1A1 with 2-3 shots.... how does a chopper take 3+ and still fly away???

and maybe a correction on fix wing aircraft... one SMAW will outright destroy a SU34... it explodes as one would expect.

Serious question... is there a reason this is still an issue nearly 4 yrs on? is it something to do with the hit point based damage?

Updated by i76 over 2 years ago

  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.59.79384 to 1.63 Beta

Updated by maturin over 2 years ago

i76 wrote:

I really like how you only refer to the RPG... a grenade on a rocket... which would still disable a chopper.

So... would you like to tell me what a SMAW "wouldn't" do to a chopper... designed to destroy bunkers/hard structures... it would decimate a chopper.

And in ArmA if a SMAW kills a BMP with one shot, a T90/M1A1 with 2-3 shots.... how does a chopper take 3+ and still fly away???

You are using video game logic without any real understanding of how the weapons work. An RPG-7 is not a 'grenade on a rocket.' The acronym 'rocket propelled grenade' exists because of a direct translation from Russian. An RPG's warhead bears no resemblance to any grenade. It is a specialized shaped charge warhead designed for punching holes in armor plate and concrete. It is extremely inefficient at distributing shell fragments and causing blast damage.

A SMAW (with an anti-armor warhead) does not "destroy" bunkers. Thousands of pounds of explosives or specialized weaponry (incendiary, thermobaric, etc) is needed to do that. Shaped charge warheads simply punch holes in things, with a smallish blast and a few fragments impacting the exterior of the obstacle. Now, if you are inside a cramped vehicle or bunker, the copper jet and cloud of debris with cut you in half, and the spall will bounce around the confined space with deadly results. Then there's heat and overpressure to worry about.

A helicopter's fuselage is not airtight and enclosed like a tank or bunker. Therefore heat and overpressure will pose little to no risk to the majority of the aircraft. It is made of exceedingly thin metal, meaning that the shaped charge will pass effortlessly through without creating much in the way of spall. A chopper hit by an RPG will probably be forced to crash land, and the odds of crew survival are very poor, but a sudden catastrophic fireball killing everyone on board is unlikely.

And despite what you say, hitting a chopper in the fuselage with an RPG or grenade always results in engine failure in ArmA 2, removing it from the fight. If the rocket also had a (very large) chance to kill the crew and destroy the flight controls, this would be quite realistic.

Updated by cyrilator over 2 years ago

An AT rocket hitting a chopper would not necessary provocate big explosion, only if it hit fuel tank.

Ingame, AT rockets should have more lethality against crew/passengers. they should be more suceptible to die from AT rocket impact.

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