Bug #3807

clairvoyant AI

Added by Chaos over 5 years ago. Updated about 2 years ago.

Status:Expired Start date:08/19/2009
Priority:High Due date:07/14/2010
Assignee:- % Done:

0%

Category:AI Issues
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version:1.05.62017 First affected build:
Reproduced by another DH user:Yes First affected ArmA II version:
I am using some Mods:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using:OA only BIForumURL:
Reproducible for you:No NGUrl:
Related to content of DLC: WIKIurl:

Description

AI units can precise see and identify units behind bushes, trees, houses, vehicles or hills (!). They can precise rate the distance to this enemy and identify the kind of units - like an RPG soldier, Tanks M1A2 etc.

The same issue with very distanced units. AI soldiers can see and identify precise the side of a unit and his kind (RPG, AA, MG soldier) for distances over 300, 600, 800, 1000 meters. I think this is really shitting bug. I can´t identify (w/o optics like binocular) the side and primary weapon of a guy who is over 250 meters distanced from me. And i can´t see through objects or terrain. It should be better to identify only "anything" or "unit" or "soldier/vehicle".

Yes, i know - this issue is sice CWC present.

detection_bug.Chernarus.rar (2.2 kB) Fireball, 09/02/2009 04:49

SS-2009.09.07-08.05.57.jpg (221.5 kB) Fireball, 09/07/2009 06:12

test_X1.Chernarus.rar (2.1 kB) Chaos, 09/14/2009 00:04

capture_25102009_125333.jpg (1.1 MB) Chaos, 10/25/2009 12:36


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #1701: Unrealistic, Impossible Detection mechanism (AI AND Player!) Closed 06/01/2009 11/08/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #2671: Object rendering distance != view distance Closed 07/08/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #3222: Civilian vehicle threat detection Assigned 07/31/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #2650: Using the 2 Button (target acquisition) gives targets you... Expired 07/07/2009

History

Updated by zGuba over 5 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Assigned
  • Priority changed from High to Normal

I know that display names are ordered using class inheritance and accuracy values. The problem is that AI and player gains too much knowledge instantly - using IR scanner or even looking at someone standing at distance.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Due date set to 09/19/2009
  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback

IMO this has been clearly improved with patch 1.03.

Can you please provide a test mission for this.

I could give you a counter-example which, if you compared 1.02 and 1.03, would prove that the AI certainly does not have the hawk eyes and cat ears anymore:

For bug #2896, Squelch made a mission which has a sniper in which is around ~600m away and in patch 1.02 when you fired up the mission the sniper would see you immediately and fire at you. With patch 1.03 the mission was not good for reproduction anymore unless I prepended the script line "this reveal player;" into the init line of the sniper. If you know where the sniper is, which is a mere 3-4 pixels at this distance, you can shoot at it and it won't find out where you are unless it get's lucky (AI skill bar was at 50% when I tested it) - as it is supposed to be. The more you increase the bar the better the detection ability gets.

Also, I hide in/behind bushes very often and usually get overlooked by AI unless I shoot at them, within their perception distance.

As for the seeing through buildings or hills the issue was not sufficiently reproducable anymore. If you can achieve this, this would help your case.

Updated by zGuba over 5 years ago

Detection is not a problem here, Fireball. The problem is that detected unit is almost immediately recognized up to maximum level (exact displayName for given class), not just Soldier or Man, though you wouldn't be able to clearly recognize given soldier's equipment from such distances without binocs or scopes. Vehicles detecded via IR scanner are fully recognized even faster.

Updated by Chaos over 5 years ago

Here is a little bit different situation. BLUFOR vehicles in Staroye (not in players group, members of players group cannot see Staroye) can not seen but they can be identified and the distance can be exactly definite by player.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1ScUVi
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq12P1oA
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1w2jBS

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

Judging by the <> in your screenshot (squad unit marker) I assume that someone of your group is next to/can see/has recently seen the vehicles. Thus they reported it to you.

This kind of "spacebar detection" is a nuisance per se, but I think that what you are seeing is the result of a "reveal" report of another unit in your squad.

EDIT: I think I do know what you mean, but friendly vehicles are maybe an exception that could be reported by high command or something; please try to make a repro mission with enemies.

I've also encountered it a couple of times that I or an AI member shouts out a UNKNOWN man and they open fire anyway, since they know it by some magic manner, that it is an enemy man

Updated by Chaos over 5 years ago

No, look on the areal - there is no possible to see the vehicles from this position. For noone. This problem is not easy to reproduce, but the same problems i can have with enemy units.

Updated by Chaos over 5 years ago

Another evidence: http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVkxRVS

Very distanced vehicle behind groundwave can bee seen. In the night!

NO, this is no "feedback" - this is an really bug. So plz change the status from "feedback" to "bug". I can post demomission for it here if is needed.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

It's always been marked as "bug" independent of the Feedback status. A missing repro mission is why it's on Feedback - if you are able to provide one, I'll be happy to assign it.

Also please specify if you used patch 1.03 or a beta patch (build no) to repro it.

Updated by Chaos over 5 years ago

Here is it. First don´t move and wait for the 2 explosions. Then look through the binocular between the smokes and target around the fireplace left and right and click right. After have an effect, move to the sandbags (waypoint) and click on the buildings in the city. Here is the repro not ever working but with littlebit luck you can target the enemy tanks.

http://www.filefront.com/14387925/detection_bug.Chernarus.rar

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 09/19/2009 to 09/09/2009
  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned
  • Assignee set to Fireball

I think what zGuba meant is, that if "UNKNOWN" targets are detected, the AI knows if it's an enemy and you can tab-select it (e.g. a vehicle that can be aquired from a vehicle weapon) and you know that it only selects enemies, even if they are shown yellow.

But we're mixing two issues here with the unrealistic detection behind objects or through hills and the identification of friend or foe. We might want to split that up.

Thanks for the repro - I can't try or judge it right now, but I'll look at it some time next week.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

Please attach the file directly next time - those filesharing services do expire uploads after a while, thanks.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

Chaos wrote:

Here is it. First don´t move and wait for the 2 explosions. Then look through the binocular between the smokes and target around the fireplace left and right and click > right. After have an effect, move to the sandbags (waypoint) and click on the buildings in the city. Here is the repro not ever working but with littlebit luck you can > target the enemy tanks.

Whoa, I think we've got a good repro here. I didn't even had to move, I just had to hold-rightclick and I called out a unknown, which I somehow magically recognized as BMP-3, still yellow though, but clearly enemy (see attached screenshot). I even checked out the FOV of my colleague and it wouldn't see it yet from it's position either.

Congratulations on that one.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 09/09/2009 to 09/29/2009

Updated by Chaos over 5 years ago

Here is another demo mission, who you can see that your unit will identify "static defense", but the view on the defense is obscured, so you don´t should to be able to identify it.

Move slowly and straight to the wall in south, along the house and you can hear the identify. Look now on the map to see which units are identified and compare it with your line of view.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 09/29/2009 to 10/29/2009
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.03.58627 to 1.04.59026
  • Reproduced by another DH user set to No

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Reproduced by another DH user changed from No to Yes

Yeah, the AI can somehow peek through one layer of fence(s) too, unlike in the first mission, where the BMP2 just is beyond visiblity behind a little inclination and I could repro both.

Updated by Dwarden over 5 years ago

  • Priority changed from Normal to High
  • Target version set to 1.05 BETA
  • CPU set to Please specify!

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

My repro steps do not match this bug description.

The detection_bug.Chernarus is possibly already fixed.

Updated by Chaos over 5 years ago

I can´t tell you about it, but look on the attached screen from today ( ARMA2 v1.04 )

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

Can you tell us about where the MG in fact was? Mark it on a copy of that screenshot please.

Updated by Chaos over 5 years ago

Check the mission "test_X1.Chernarus.rar".

The mg is behind the beton wall left in front of you and it is silent. So you cannot see it, and you cannot hear it.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

Ah yes, I've been able to repro it too. Thanks.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

Re-reading the original description of the bug, I think it's potentially related to the "clairvoyance" they have, as soon you wound/hit one of an enemy AI group with a sniper rifle over distance. But I'm not sure, thus I'll open a different ticket or continue looking for some where it fits.

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 10/29/2009 to 11/29/2009

Updated by kju over 5 years ago

  • Target version changed from 1.05 BETA to Upcoming version

Updated by mr.g-c over 5 years ago

Very awesome guys, this is exactly the bug i described here by the way: #1701
Look here a screen from this topic and how i was able to detect a enemy tank through every hill and whatever 1000m away: http://dev-heaven.net/attachments/1381/bug_detection_again.jpg

Updated by Fireball over 5 years ago

Looks like we have multiple bugs reproed here (yours included)...maybe we should re-open your bug and attach the one mission with the BMP there.

Once Dwarden gets back I'll talk this over.

Updated by kju almost 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 11/29/2009 to 07/14/2010
  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback
  • Assignee deleted (Dwarden)
  • Target version deleted (Upcoming version)
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.04.59026 to 1.05.62017
  • Size of OS swap file set to Please specify!

Still valid in 1.07 / OA?

Updated by ViperMaul over 4 years ago

We may have some feedback for you over the next couple of weeks.

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Expired

This has become a ticket of many, and many also probably reproduced or seen a different type of error.

Things have been vastly improved and changed over time with Operation Arrowhead.

If you find this bug still showing up, please open a new ticket for OA and supply screenshots/repro steps/repro mission.

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