Bug #3603

AI in vehicles detect enemy vehicles too easily

Added by alef almost 6 years ago. Updated about 3 years ago.

Status:Assigned Start date:08/12/2009
Priority:Normal Due date:08/26/2011
Assignee:Dwarden % Done:

0%

Category:AI Issues
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version:1.60 BETA First affected build:
Reproduced by another DH user:Yes First affected ArmA II version:
I am using some Mods:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using:CO (OA+A2) BIForumURL:
Reproducible for you:Yes NGUrl:
Related to content of DLC: WIKIurl:

Description

Improved repro from kju (3603.Chernarus.7z):

Obs
The tank sees the HMMWV in the woods without the commander nor the gunner scanning the area.
They pick up position very precisely at an instant without the HMMWV revealing itself.
While he does not identify the vehicles as threat instantly, the commander(or gunner mg?) starts
to fire immediately. Only a second or two later the target becomes red (identified as hostile).

Exp
The tank should not pick up the HMMWV without being attacked first or watching directly through
the trees at the HMMWV by coincidence.

Repro
  1. Run the attached mission in the editor
  2. Use radio alpha to have the tank view of the situation

Bravo is the HMMWV view and CHARLIE the javelin infantry.


Old repro (CIT_3603.zip)

  • load the mission in the editor
  • preview
  • wait for the tanks to go ahead
  • as the HMMWV is reported (knowsAbout > 0)
  • read in hint box the nearTarget for the HMMWV:
    1. distance from percieved position to real position
    2. accuray (6th element)
    3. isEngineOn command
Observed
  • As commander, it's impossible to see the enemies in the tree
  • The HMMWV is not audiable in the tank noise
  • The HMMWV has engineOn false
Expected
  • The HMMWV should not be reported

Thanks to Stark for having spotted and reported this.

AI.Chernarus.7z - original mission by Stark (972 Bytes) alef, 08/12/2009 12:41

CIT_3603.zip (1.2 kB) alef, 09/19/2010 13:57

3603.Chernarus.7z (1.4 kB) kju, 08/12/2011 14:08


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #1701: Unrealistic, Impossible Detection mechanism (AI AND Player!) Closed 06/01/2009 11/08/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #5785: AI view not obstructed by grass layer Closed 11/11/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #23384: Implement some sort of automatic area scanning by AI vehi... Assigned 08/12/2011

History

Updated by alef almost 6 years ago

  • Subject changed from Unrealistic, Impossible Detection mechanism (AI AND Player!) part 2 to AI in vehicles detect enemy vehicles too easily

Updated by alef almost 6 years ago

  • File deleted (CIT_1701_2_Chernarus.sqm)

Updated by alef almost 6 years ago

  • File CIT_3603_Chernarus.sqm added

Updated by zGuba almost 6 years ago

  • Category set to AI Issues
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.03.58627 to 1.04.59026

Might be connected to retarded "IR scanner".

Updated by Dwarden almost 6 years ago

  • Assignee set to Dwarden
  • Reproduced by another DH user set to No

Updated by alef over 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 11/12/2009 to 12/04/2009

Updated by kju about 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 12/04/2009 to 07/14/2010
  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback
  • Assignee deleted (Dwarden)
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.04.59026 to 1.05.62017
  • Size of OS swap file set to Please specify!

Updated by alef almost 5 years ago

  • File CIT_3603.zip added
  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned
  • Assignee set to Dwarden
  • I am using some Mods set to No
  • Reproducible for you set to No

Yes.
Repro updated and attached: now shows isEngine when detected.

Updated by alef almost 5 years ago

  • Due date deleted (07/14/2010)
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.05.62017 to 1.55 BETA

Updated by alef almost 5 years ago

  • File deleted (CIT_3603_Chernarus.sqm)

Updated by kju almost 5 years ago

  • Due date set to 12/01/2010

Updated by Suma almost 4 years ago

Might be connected to retarded "IR scanner".

Yes, it is probably connected to it. The retarded IR scanner is simulated in such a retarded way that it always reports a vehicle it sees, engine on/off only allows identifying it as friend or foe. If the retarded IR scanner would not identify it, you would not be able to lock any weapon currently requiring irLock on such target with current retarded implementation.

If the enemy is able to identify an enemy this way (this is not mentioned in the Observed results, therefore I do not know if it does), it would seem like a serious issue to me (most likely fixable), but if not, I am afraid this is a limitation of the implementation which would be hard to change.

Updated by kju almost 4 years ago

  • File 3603.Chernarus.7z added
  • Due date changed from 12/01/2010 to 11/01/2011
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.55 BETA to 1.59.79384
  • Reproduced by another DH user changed from No to Yes
  • CPU deleted (Please specify!)
  • Audio card deleted (Please specify!)
  • Size of OS swap file deleted (Please specify!)
  • I am using set to CO (OA+A2)
  • Reproducible for you changed from No to Yes

Well Suma I am sure he does not mean personally.
It is more that as player situations like these are very frustrating.

Here is a largely improved demo mission based on the given one.

Obs
The tank sees the HMMWV in the woods without the commander nor the gunner scanning the area.
They pick up position very precisely at an instant without the HMMWV revealing itself.
While he does not identify the vehicles as threat instantly, the commander(or gunner mg?) starts
to fire immediately. Only a second or two later the target becomes red (identified as hostile).

Exp
The tank should not pick up the HMMWV without being attacked first or watching directly through
the trees at the HMMWV by coincidence.

Repro
  1. Run the attached mission in the editor
  2. Use radio alpha to have the tank view of the situation

Bravo is the HMMWV view and CHARLIE the javelin infantry.

Suma please give it another go. Thank you.

Updated by alef almost 4 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by alef almost 4 years ago

  • Due date changed from 11/01/2011 to 08/26/2011
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.59.79384 to 1.60 BETA

Updated by Suma almost 4 years ago

While he does not identify the vehicles as threat instantly, the commander(or gunner mg?) starts

to fire immediately.

This might be a problem of recent versions, perhaps since following fix:

[83273] Changed: Temporarily abandoned vehicles are no longer considered neutral (AI continues engaging them).

Could you check with some version before 83273 it they engage the target as well?

Updated by kju almost 4 years ago

From what I can tell there is no difference between 1.59 and the latest beta:

Version 1.59 79384

[18.767,0.0672564]
[39.463,0.153732]
[45.004,4]

[11.137,0.12473]
[42.935,0.158573]
[48.019,4]
[19.262,0.0664588]
[37.977,0.172843]
[45.556,4]

Version 1.59 83569

[35.986,0.0656339]
[42.534,0.163253]
[48.601,4]

[9.139,0.124091]
[15.732,0.148959]
[38.921,0.173941]
[22.703,0.172704]
[51.519,4]

These are knowsAbout value from the tank about the HMMWV.
It gets 4 once the tank gets fired upon by the HMMWV with the TOW.
The tank commander engages the HMMWV before that event.

Observations
  • The tank commander can/could see the HMMWV on the radar as white dot shortly after the mission start and a few times later on for short moments too
  • However the actual detection seems at least only partially related as it most times happens later - at least not while the phase the vehicle is visible on the radar for the longest continuous phase
  • The knowsAbout values do not seem to be connected to the HMMWV being visible on the radar either. The detection event by the tank commander seems to be from a different source.
  • It shows a very low knowsAbout value until the tank gets attacked by the HMMWV - the commander can still determine the vehicle type though
  • The tank commander engages the HMMWV at some point. It seems not directly related to the knowsAbout value though as he attacks it only a little later and not once it becomes aware of it (no knowsAbout value change either once it engages - from what i can tell)
  • Once knowsAbout becomes 4 because getting attacked by the HMMWV TOW, the gunner focuses on the HMMWV too

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