Feature #29279

Add delay for vehicle seat switching

Added by cyrilator about 3 years ago. Updated 13 days ago.

Status:New Start date:03/11/2012
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:

30%

Category:Complex
Target version:TBD
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

A solution to limit the instantaneous seat switching should be to implement a countdown each time you switch seat :

the count down appear on a black screen with the messages :

"switching to driver...",
"switching to gunner..."
"switching to commander..."
"switching to back seat..."

some metallic sounds footsteps to accompagny the count down (vehicle compartments)

during this count down your only options would be to cancel action or to get out. (no possibility to drive, to use camera or gun) before the end of the count down.

seat switching from driver to other seat only concern vehicle technically able to do it.

for vehicles that can't do it, crew member must get out anyway.

History

Updated by Sickboy about 3 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by kOepi about 3 years ago

4 seconds, yea. if you are in a hurry you can change the seat very fast, e.g. from gunner to driver.
co seat to driver seat.
maybe one can implement a blurry screen with a line like "changing to driver seat" with the possibility to exit the vehicle during that task.

Updated by rocko about 3 years ago

ok, 10.

Updated by rocko about 3 years ago

  • Target version set to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Updated by ScarecrowisNOTamused. about 3 years ago

While it may add realism, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay or enjoyment, nothing frustrates me more than when using AAW vehicals and a 3 seccond black screen comes up to switch from the passanger seat to the gunner seat after a gunner takes a hit and is killed, it annoys me to the point that i now use a addon menu to switch seats just to cut out that time, please, do not do it with the current vehicals... or at least as add it to the 'immersive dismount' so each user can disable it if they wish...

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

ScarecrowisNOTamused. wrote:

While it may add realism, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay or enjoyment, nothing frustrates me more than when using AAW vehicles and a 3 second black screen comes up to switch from the passenger seat to the gunner seat after a gunner takes a hit and is killed...

the main goal of this request is to bring real strategic seat switching delays and stop magical instantaneous seat switching.

Is it enjoyable to see your enemy teleporting from seat to seat, using it as overpowered and unrealistic feature ?

it completely remove stragegy and doesn't have his place in ACE.

the only realistic solutions to avoid seat switching delay vulnerabilities should be to use crews teamworking, communications, like it's supposed to be done IRL.

it annoys me to the point that i now use a addon menu to switch seats just to cut out that time, please, do not do it with the current vehicals... or at least as add it to the 'immersive dismount' so each user can disable it if they wish...

Realistic seat switching delay should not be an option but an obligation.

I you play with ACE you must accept that this kind of magical instantaneous seat switching to be removed and replaced by something more realistic and immersive.

Updated by rocko about 3 years ago

  • Target version changed from Planned (Needs Contributors) to 1.14
  • % Done changed from 0 to 30

Updated by ScarecrowisNOTamused. about 3 years ago

Again... make it optional, it does not add anything to gameplay or immersion and certinly will not add anything to teamwork...

Is it enjoyable to see your enemy teleporting from seat to seat, using it as overpowered and unrealistic feature ?

how is it overpowered? because you can't think fast enough to move faster than your enemy? it may not be enjoyable but in the amount of times most people ride in a unprotected vehical that won't protect you from the first few shots versus killing you instantly, especcially when there is a threat of enemy vehicles it doesn't faze me or make me annoyed in the slightest.

it completely remove stragegy and doesn't have his place in ACE.

Strategy? it's not like theres going to be 6 people in seprate tanks driving at you to switch to the gunner seat (leaving them self immobile and leave them selfs as a target) when they could have 2-3 tanks engaging while moving with another person spoting targets, besides in many armored vehicals switching from gunner/driver vice-versa as with aircraft is disabled with ACE because of the compartments being far apart or seprate from each other anyway.

If you REALLY want to reduce a gunners effectiveness, add a 1-2 sec delay/press check animation to the weapon when switching to the gunners position.

Updated by Thor2k4 about 3 years ago

i agree with scarecrow, it may add to the "realism" but its a little over the top (kinda like the shoulder tap, which is completely pointless/useless feature to which no one uses). i can see maybe the super hardcore milsim groups being the ones that would look for this indepth of "realism". if this does become a feature, i would like to suggest @ least allow it to be disabled for those that dont care for it..

but from looking above it sounds like this is moving along, so my suggestion would be to make it 3-5 secs, 10 seems way to long and i cant see anyone taking 10 secs to switch from driver to backseat.

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

ScarecrowisNOTamused. wrote:

how is it overpowered? because you can't think fast enough to move faster than your enemy?

When your enemy can magically use every seats at will instantaneously, this is indeed completely overpowered and fancy.

for example, IRL a driver wanting to switch to gunner would have to stop the vehicle, displace inside the vehicle (when it's technically possible). it would let time to the opponents to move, to get cover, or to prepare counter attack, ripost. these few seconds are vital to react.

Strategy? it's not like theres going to be 6 people in seprate tanks driving at you to switch to the gunner seat (leaving them self immobile and leave them selfs as a target) when they could have 2-3 tanks engaging while moving with another person spoting targets, besides in many armored vehicals switching from gunner/driver vice-versa as with aircraft is disabled with ACE because of the compartments being far apart or seprate from each other anyway.

I invite your to try PVP servers (where I play) with 30 people using ACE, many of them with armored vehicles, and you will understand why instantaneous seat switching remove any tactics or strategy.

ex : the player is running full speed with his vehicles, can switch to gunner seat instantaneously while vehicles is still moving at fast speed (Bradley, BMP3, Stryker, etc..), he just spot you, shot you, and immediately go back to driver...etc etc etc.

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.

If you REALLY want to reduce a gunners effectiveness, add a 1-2 sec delay/press check animation to the weapon when switching to the gunners position.

this is not made to reduce gunner effectiveness, but to limit seat switching exploits.

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

Thor2k4 wrote:

but from looking above it sounds like this is moving along, so my suggestion would be to make it 3-5 secs, 10 seems way to long and i cant see anyone taking 10 secs to switch from driver to backseat.

well, this is true that it also depend of the type of vehicle concerned.

to switch seat inside an Humvee compartement (driver, passenger seat, backseat, external gunner) would take only 3-4 seconds not more.

but the situation would be a bit more complicated for cramped compartments or specific crewed design vehciles (Bradley, Stryker, BMP3, Warrior, etc)

if you would chronometer the time required to a crew member to quit the driver seat, and to be ready to use commander or gunner seat, it would be close to 7-8 seconds.

in certain vehicle, like Bradley, commander and gunner are seated in turret just side by side, we can determine this specific seat displacement wouldn't require more than 2-3 seconds.

depending the kind of seat switching, time required should be more or less long.

Best would be to implement specific delay for each specific seat switch.

if specific delays aren't implementable, harmonizing delay to 5-6 seconds would be a good compromise, and would limit enough seat switching exploits.

Updated by MontyB about 3 years ago

I am curious as to why you think this is necesseary ?

I am also wondering why you think it would take any time at all / require becoming blind to change seats ?

If you want 'realism' disable the ability to change seats in specific vehicles. M1A1 Bradly etc.

If you want to not get face raped by opposing players in armoured vehicles, bring an Anti-Tank weapon.

Updated by ScarecrowisNOTamused. about 3 years ago

if specific delays aren't implementable, harmonizing delay to 5-6 seconds would be a good compromise, and would limit enough seat switching exploits.

Sigh IRL it takes roughly 2-4 seconds to switch from the drivers seat of a LRPV (Landrover) to the gunner seat while climbing over ammoboxes and people sitting in the way.. since thats your brain going 'He's dead'>sees target>jump on gun NOW! climbing over seat>grabs gun>fires

with bradleys and tanks its even less, a bradley commander is standing with his foot right next to the gunners head he can simply step left and fall down into the gunners seat.

compared to in arma where your brain goes 'He's dead'>jump on the gun now!:
franticly scroll>click/middle click/enter>switch to gun>aquire target>fire

Just admit you got raped by a single guy in a tank and you're just butthurt..

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

MontyB wrote:

I am curious as to why you think this is necesseary ?

because it would be more realistic than the current procedure, it would bring a parameter that many people underestimate, and would be surprised how it modify tactics and timing if implemented.

I am also wondering why you think it would take any time at all / require becoming blind to change seats ?

A black screen would simulate the moment you are moving inside the vehicles compartment which is a moment you can't be aware of what is happening outside (for armored vehicles), and where you can't use vehicles functions (periscope, guns, camera..etc)

If you want 'realism' disable the ability to change seats in specific vehicles. M1A1 Bradly etc.

It's already the case, for example for the M1A1 Abrams, T55, T72, T90, BMP2...etc you can't directly switch from driver to gunner/commander, you are forced to get out.

this request mainly concern vehicles allowing total seat switching, where driver compartement are accessible by commander/gunner or vice-versa. instantaneous seats switching are really an exploit.

If you want to not get face raped by opposing players in armoured vehicles, bring an Anti-Tank weapon.

it's not that simple to use your AT weapon, at distance, above all when the enemy armored is equiped with IR view, where a driver can teleport to commander/gunner to spot you and keep moving at the same time.

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

ScarecrowisNOTamused. wrote:

if specific delays aren't implementable, harmonizing delay to 5-6 seconds would be a good compromise, and would limit enough seat switching exploits.

Sigh IRL it takes roughly 2-4 seconds to switch from the drivers seat of a LRPV (Landrover) to the gunner seat while climbing over ammoboxes and people sitting in the way.. since thats your brain going 'He's dead'>sees target>jump on gun NOW! climbing over seat>grabs gun>fires

with bradleys and tanks its even less, a bradley commander is standing with his foot right next to the gunners head he can simply step left and fall down into the gunners seat.

this is what i also said previously, and why i suggest to implement customized delay according to the type of seat switching (driver to/from comander&gunner) (commander to/from gunner) (backseat/passenger seat to/from others seats)

compared to in arma where your brain goes 'He's dead'>jump on the gun now!:
franticly scroll>click/middle click/enter>switch to gun>aquire target>fire

seat change currently takes less than 1 seconds. sorry but this delay is not realistic.

Just admit you got raped by a single guy in a tank and you're just butthurt..

thank to confirm my claims, to get "raped" by a lone-wolfing guy in a tank (which is supposed to be used with 3 or 4 crew members) is just fancy. perfect for BF3, but not for ACE.

Updated by Thor2k4 about 3 years ago

seat change currently takes less than 1 seconds. sorry but this delay is not realistic.

actually when you think about it, it takes a second to scroll and select what seat you want, then another second to switch, plus another .5 - 1 sec to acquire your target.

I may not see the point of having said feature, but really 10 secs....that's waaaaaaaaaaaay to slow.. that has to be the most unfit soldier in the history of any military to take that long to switch from any seat regardless of what vehicle, especially if under fire.

3 - 4 secs seems to be more accurate.

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

Thor2k4 wrote:

actually when you think about it, it takes a second to scroll and select what seat you want, then another second to switch, plus another .5 - 1 sec to acquire your target.

there is no switching delay, this is instantaneous.

i'm calculating time required from seat to seat. scroll mouse selection + click take only one second, not more.

delay to acquire target is another subject.

I may not see the point of having said feature, but really 10 secs....that's waaaaaaaaaaaay to slow.. that has to be the most unfit soldier in the history of any military to take that long to switch from any seat regardless of what vehicle, especially if under fire.

Armored crew members are a team and do teamwork, they never constantly switch seat like ingame, above all in combat situation. ask to them, this is completely inappropriate in real situation.

I didn't suggested 10seconds. I suggested a maximum of 7-8 seconds for precise kind of seat switch (for example driver to/from commander-gunner in Bradley or BMP3).

let's suppose you are alone(!^^!) in a 35 tons armored vehicles, you are under stress, in combat situation, I maintain this delay is appropriated,

crew compartments are often confined, difficult to move inside, IRL there is often dedicated driver compartment and turret compartment

example with bradley :

http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics/m3bradley.html

for more accessible seat switch like gunner/commander, humvee compartement...etc, even 2-3 secs would be enough.

Updated by Thor2k4 about 3 years ago

maybe i should have asked before, are you wanting this feature to be for ALL vehicles or just Armor? because from the above response i feel that you just want it for armor..

to which i would say 7-8 is fine for armor, but not any other ones. because if that was your intention, you should change the ticket title...if gives the impression your are wanting it for all land vehicles.

think that's where most of us are coming from, that 7-8 secs for Humvee / Jackal is completely unrealistic.

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

Thor2k4 wrote:

maybe i should have asked before, are you wanting this feature to be for ALL vehicles or just Armor? because from the above response i feel that you just want it for armor..

to which i would say 7-8 is fine for armor, but not any other ones. because if that was your intention, you should change the ticket title...if gives the impression your are wanting it for all land vehicles.

think that's where most of us are coming from, that 7-8 secs for Humvee / Jackal is completely unrealistic.

you right, I didn't specify it in the title request, I had armored models in mind for the 7-8 seconds delay.

But as you can read in my following replies, I suggested it could be adapted for all vehicles, with specifics delays for each type of vehicles, and even differents delays inside a vehicle according to the type of seat switch :

armored seat switch procedure would need 7-8 seconds because their compartement structure are confined, while classic vehicle like humvee or jackal would only need 2-3 seconds, since their compartment are easier to reach.

two delays examples :

Bradley/BMP3 :

driver to/from gunner-commander-back seats : 6-7-8 seconds (debatable)
gunner to/from commander : 2 seconds
gunner-commander to/from back seats : 3 seconds

Humvee/Brdm2:

driver to/from front passenger : 2-3 seconds.
driver to/from external gunner : 2-3 seconds.
driver to/from back seats-gunner (crows/turret) : 3-4 seconds

If these delays would be correctly implemented it would really bring realism, and force players to take seat switching timings into account before to decide to move . ("should i switch now ?" "is it risky ?")

Updated by Thor2k4 about 3 years ago

armored seat switch procedure would need 7-8 seconds because their compartement structure are confined, while classic vehicle like humvee or jackal would only need 2-3 seconds, since their compartment are easier to reach.

ah ok, that makes sense.

Updated by tyler2 about 3 years ago

It does not make sense! For shots of the RPG-7 and SMAW in real life it takes longer than in the game, right? Do not forget about it. If you want to make a realistic time required for changing position in the armor, first you need to make a realistic time required for shots from a grenade launcher. You know what I mean? the case in the balance.

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

tyler2 wrote:

It does not make sense!

Lot of things has been implemented that increase delays (or to complicate procedures) for interactions : Onboard missiles reloading (TOW, KonKurs, etc), static weapons installation and reloading, Healing..etc.

do you consider it doesn't make sense too ?

My request make sense because it has the same goal.

the problem is not my request, the problem is the current Rocket/missile/grenade launchers reloading delays.

solution is to make a dedicated request for this.

Updated by Thor2k4 about 3 years ago

tyler2 wrote:

For shots of the RPG-7 and SMAW in real life it takes longer than in the game, right? Do not forget about it. If you want to make a realistic time required for changing position in the armor, first you need to make a realistic time required for shots from a grenade launcher. You know what I mean? the case in the balance.

imo, make a ticket about it, posting here does not help get it fixed.

but ya would have to agree its a 2 way street, got to have balance.

Updated by rocko almost 3 years ago

  • Subject changed from add 7-8 seconds black screen count down for vehicule seat swtiching. to Add delay for vehicle seat switching

Updated by rocko over 2 years ago

  • Category set to Complex

Updated by rocko over 2 years ago

  • Target version changed from 1.14 to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Updated by cyrilator almost 2 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by rocko almost 2 years ago

  • Target version changed from Planned (Needs Contributors) to TBD

Updated by K.Hunter 21 days ago

I'm disappointed that this got abandoned. It would have been a very useful feature for those looking for more realism/immersion, not to mention the effects on teamplay as cyrilator mentioned...

Updated by cyrilator 14 days ago

The entire mod has been abandonned. no more updates, and sadly no Arma 3 port. what a waste...

Also available in: Atom PDF