Feature #29257

Ironsight zeroing for the m16 / M4 series

Added by kOepi about 3 years ago. Updated almost 2 years ago.

Status:New Start date:03/10/2012
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:Robalo % Done:

0%

Category:Config
Target version:TBD
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

Hello everyone,

I would like to request zeroing for the m 16s ad m4s, which are ironsighted.

this would mean from 7 to 14 different clicks.

25meter, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600.

I found some information in this Field Manual :

http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/199th/DCO/content/PDF/FM3-22-9.pdf

the files contain the important information for trajectory and
point of impact differences.

greetz

kOepi

M4pofImpact.JPG (54.3 kB) kOepi, 03/10/2012 15:17

m4trajectory.JPG (119.1 kB) kOepi, 03/10/2012 15:17

m16a4pofimpact.JPG (61.6 kB) kOepi, 03/10/2012 15:17

m16trajectory.JPG (122.7 kB) kOepi, 03/10/2012 15:17

M16M4POFIMPACTOV.JPG (238.4 kB) kOepi, 03/10/2012 18:13

probability of hit.JPG (64.2 kB) kOepi, 03/11/2012 11:45

History

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

maybe an implentation of the current system on Ak serie (page up/down) for iron sighted M4/M16 ?

Updated by kOepi about 3 years ago

Updated by Huggy about 3 years ago

By reading this manual correctly, it becomes quite obvious that a zeroing only makes sense above 200 meters since the bullet drop is too small below that range.

Point of impact pictures only show the differences of one click on the sight adjustment.
It does not show the actual differences in trajectory height.

Since no one shoots at miniature targets in Arma 2, difference in trajectory height below 200 meters will not result in missing the target if the shooter was aiming of the "lethal zone" mentioned in the document as well.

I support zeroing options starting at 200 meters up to 600 meters in 100 meter steps.

Updated by kOepi about 3 years ago

especially below 200 meters I would like to have a zeroing, because I have to aim lower, if you only have a head sticking out somewhere, you will need those one to 7 centimeter to maintain a first shot hit.

Updated by Huggy about 3 years ago

kOepi wrote:

especially below 200 meters I would like to have a zeroing, because I have to aim lower, if you only have a head sticking out somewhere, you will need those one to 7 centimeter to maintain a first shot hit.

First off read the manual about "lethal zone" and take in account that the head is not a preferred target zone in RL.

Secondly, a well trained shooter, as you already said, knows that he has to compensate a little if the actual combat distance is not equal to his sight setting.
Knowing this and using it for distances below 200 meters means he has to aim slightly lower, since it is only a few inches if not less it should not be a huge problem.

At the end you are also able to use a double tab at this distances which is increasing your chances of a lethal hit dramatically, even on a very small hit zone like the head.
Taking in account that bullet spread is also preventing 100 percent precision, double tab might be the way to go for your short distance problems.

Updated by kOepi about 3 years ago

"First off read the manual about "lethal zone" and take in account that the head is not a preferred target zone in RL."

if you see only the head out of foxhole, bunker, you will not aim for, because it is not the lethal zone?

of course you have to compensate, but when a rifle is zeroed at 200 meters and you aim for leg, arm, sholder, head

it might be a maximum of 7 centimeters off zero and it is higher.

with this sentence of yours you are questioning the need of 14 clicks of that rifle, more accurate, you are questioning a zeroing
below 200 meters in RL.

I dont understand what a double TAB is. if you mean "shooting twice", on a close distance like 25 meters or 50 meters it is not a wish to do a first shot hit, it is mandatory. the benefit of spotting the target first is gone, if you cannot hit at the first shot.

as you can see in the FM, it is expectable, after training, that a soldier can hit a standing target up to 150 Meter with a hit probability of 100 % and that is not, because he was hunting with his m16 bears in the woods.

Updated by cyrilator about 3 years ago

when ak74 are zeroed at 100m the bullet have a flat trajectory from 0 to 100m, same would goes for ironsighted M4/M16. shooting at 25m or 100m doesn't change anything, above all when you are supposed to aim the torso.

if you expect to do a first shot hit don't aim the head. hitable surface is too hazardous.

Updated by Huggy about 3 years ago

kOepi wrote:

as you can see in the FM, it is expectable, after training, that a soldier can hit a standing target up to 150 Meter with a hit probability of 100 % and that is not, because he was hunting with his m16 bears in the woods.

Right and that is absolutely possible with a 200 meter sight setting, no one will miss at that range if he is aiming for the "lethal zone" aka torso.
You were talking about the head which was not mentioned in the FM.

As cyrilator pointed out, aiming for the head is something you donĀ“t do.

Google "double tab", it is a common shooting technique

Updated by kOepi about 3 years ago

the problem I see is not hitting a standing shilouette below 200 or 300 meters with a weapon zeroed at that distance.

the problem I experienced and I see is to hit a target that is only 20 cm high ( body prone or a head ) and below one third lower than the
zeroed range.

here a current example which is not a real argument, cause nobody here wants it.

as you can see in the Table 5-9 the highest point of the ballistic curve is at 5.88 inches at a range of 175 meters.
so you have at that range of 175 a shilouette of 20 cm and possible space for your ironsight on the screen of 1.1 mm ( 4 pixels ) to move up and down to still hit the target.

with the maximum expected tolerance in this example of around 15 cm higher it will add to your field of possible mistakes around 0,86 mm on your screen.
so you have about 0,24 mm ( half a pixel ) to move up and down to aim right, in the worst case.

if you would be able to zero the rifle at a range of 200 meters you will have around one third less inaccuracy.

end of example

same it is on a zeroed range of 200 meters and a given target at 100 or 75 meters or 50 meters.
the window for possible mistakes on the ironsight will increase down to range of approx. 50 meters.
means: the bigger the difference to the zeroed range the bigger is the inaccuracy.

I agree that the difference will not be proportional to 300 meters zeroing, but that doesn't mean that I just can ignore the differences.

Updated by rocko about 3 years ago

  • Category deleted (Model)
  • Assignee set to q1184
  • Target version set to Planned (Needs Contributors)
  • Component deleted (ironsight)

Updated by rocko about 2 years ago

  • Target version changed from Planned (Needs Contributors) to TBD

Updated by rocko about 2 years ago

  • Category set to Config

Updated by rocko almost 2 years ago

  • Assignee changed from q1184 to Robalo

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