Bug #26628

Hellfire AGM-114K bugged

Added by cyrilator over 3 years ago. Updated about 3 years ago.

Status:Closed Start date:11/26/2011
Priority:High Due date:
Assignee:Nou % Done:

100%

Category:-
Target version:1.13
Component:sys_missileguidance Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

some days ago i posted a new topic concerning Hellfire problems with hit impact. later we resolved it because i was shooting out from the boundaries map.

but since this ^revious topic, something has been changed on the hellfire making it completely inacurrate, missile have strange trajectories, and can't hit target at close distance. the TOF indicator isn't displayed neither.

could you put the previous Hellfire config back, it was more stable and bug free.

ace_sys_air_fcs.pbo (161.4 kB) Sickboy, 11/29/2011 07:36

ace_sys_missileguidance.pbo (232.7 kB) Nou, 11/29/2011 19:00

hellfire_test.Desert_E.rar (1.7 kB) Nou, 11/29/2011 19:00

ace_sys_missileguidance.pbo (232.7 kB) Sickboy, 11/30/2011 07:24

_ACE_HF_TEST.Desert_E.7z (952 Bytes) Sickboy, 11/30/2011 20:09

ace_sys_missileguidance.pbo (232.7 kB) Sickboy, 11/30/2011 20:09

History

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

I tested with apache longbow.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Feedback
  • Assignee set to Nou

How far is close? Minimum range is 1000-1500 meters. Trying to hit a target inside of that will be impossible.

Also remember that lasers work like real life now. If the missile is not clearly seeing the laser spot then it will probably miss.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

Seems 4 separate issues in 1 ticket

  • Completely inaccurate
  • Strange Trajectories
  • Can't hit target at close distance
  • TOF Indicator isn't displayed

Nou, is TOF not shown when firing from close distance? Or is TOF simply broken in general?

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

@cyrilator
We've pushed some hotfixes (incl missileguidance related) on SU since 1.13 RC4 release, be sure to grab them and test again to be sure. (Run Verify and Repair in Six Updater on the ACE preset).

But in any case as Nou pointed out - minimum range is 1000-1500m - so the issues seem only valid if you are experiencing them when engaging outside of the minimum range.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

I think its broken for the Ks. I want to look at it more in depth a bit because I remember the old one being sorta sporadic. :p

Also when engaging inside the minimum range, the missile will still try to hit the target, this can result in dangerous flight maneuvers and is not recommended because of the danger to friendlies. That might explain the "odd flight behavior" you are seeing. It will try and hit the target till the seeker goes out of view, at which point it coasts.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

  • Target version set to 1.13
  • % Done changed from 0 to 10
  • Component set to sys_missileguidance

Thanks, could you fix the TOF asap so it can be included with ACE 1.13 Stable?

Re the range - perhaps some kind of warning indicator for below minimum range could be useful? Do they have that in reallife?

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Yep, will look at it in the morning.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

the Hellfire is supposed to have a minimum range of 500m (546 yards).

but this minimum range is just theoretic. in reality the hellfire could easily hit a 300m target as long as the laser designator is in the same trajectory than the missile launch direction.

at close distance the hellfire should not go high in the sky, but directly goes straight to the target position. the missile's altitude increasing is proportional to the target distance.

Just put the previous Hellfire config back. it was fine

Updated by Xeno over 3 years ago

Yep, Hellfire minimum range is 500 m.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Source?

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

I see one page that says that the L's minimum range is 500m. We are talking about the K here remember?

Updated by Xeno over 3 years ago

It doesn't matter, minimum range is the same for all models, A/B/C/F/K/L

There are enough sources on the net.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Xeno wrote:

It doesn't matter, minimum range is the same for all models, A/B/C/F/K/L

There are enough sources on the net.

I am asking because every source says 1500m. Talking to UGLY58 who has advised us on other issues regarding the Hellfire (having been an Apache pilot for a number of years, and fired the real things) says that 1500m is right for the K and other laser models. The Longbow (L) version flies a flatter trajectory. I am guessing that is because it uses radar and doesn't need to avoid cloud cover as much as the non-radar guided ones do.

He said theoretically you could hit 500m but it'd be VERY VERY lucky. I'd imagine you'd have to be pretty much at the same level or below the target in altitude.

Remember the Hellfire's flight profile is designed in this way for two very specific reasons. One is that it is an anti-tank weapon, and hitting the top of turrets is the most effective way to kill a tank, and it is designed to impact at a 45 degree angle. Two is that it is laser guided, which is not the most reliable way to guide missiles, especially when there is objects inbetween the seekerhead of the missile and where the target is being lazed. For that reason the missile is designed to immediately gain altitude, even in LOBL mode, so it best can get a fix on the laser and keep it in sight.

The missile always does a pop-up, even at altitude.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

How about adding the lucky lucky factor at 500-1000m?

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Its already there... Just have to be at the right flight profile. Besides. If you are trying to hit a target in an apache < 1500m you are doing it wrong. Very wrong. :p

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

Its already there... Just have to be at the right flight profile. Besides. If you are trying to hit a target in an apache < 1500m you are doing it wrong. Very wrong. :p

1500m is more than far for a minimum range antitank missile.

the Hellfire is perfectly able to hit a target at 500m, the missile only take the minimum required altitude, and quickly fall on the target to hit it with a 45° angle.

the latest Hellfire code (ace_sys_missileguidance-_26473-2.7z) is surely the trouble.

please just put the previous Hellfire config back. it was perfect like it was.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

"The digital autopilot, based on an Intel microprocessor, provides more accurate control during short-range engagements, and permits trajectory shaping allowing Hellfire 2 to fly beneath cloud cover so that its seeker does not lose target lock on. It also ensures that the terminal phase, dive trajectory remains constant at the optimum angle, regardless of range. It is reported that Hellfire 2 can engage targets between 0.5 and 9 km."

source : http://weapons.technology.youngester.com/2009/08/agm-114-hellfire-missile.html

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Its not a config, its a complete rewrite of teh guidance system. I'll look at it in a bit. The previous version had far more significant issues, like taking 45 seconds to go 4km.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

The previous version had far more significant issues, like taking 45 seconds to go 4km.

^^.

I didn't test the time flight, but the missile trajectory was fine for sure.

Updated by HyperU2 over 3 years ago

Things seem a bit better after the hotfix, I still noticed some strange behavior but not as often. Missiles impact targets at the wrong trajectory from time to time. I also had one bounce off of a tank and explode against a building.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

  • Priority changed from Normal to High

Updated by zGuba over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

Its not a config, its a complete rewrite of teh guidance system. I'll look at it in a bit. The previous version had far more significant issues, like taking 45 seconds to go 4km.

That exactly was config issue with air friction too high, not the script itself :> New code differs mostly in improved laser target finding, and some details in how the PFH is maintained, but the philosophy behind is still similar.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

zGuba experienced some issues and strange behavior at 800-1500m distance etc.
Nou please check wave.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

i retested it after repairing with SIX updater.

still the same issue for close range engagement : every shot fired under a distance of 850-900m will hit 150m behind the target.

the missile can hit only if the target is farther than 900m.

this is obviously due to the fact that the missile don't adapt his flight altitude to the target range, taking automatically lots of altitude whatever the range.

before the latest missileguidance code modification the Hellfire-K could directly fall onto close target.

- at distance over 1000m the missile hit the target but not with top attack trajectory. During the last 300m the missile flies close to the ground level making unpredictable bouncing.

none of these bugs were present before

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

cyrilator wrote:

i retested it after repairing with SIX updater.

still the same issue for close range engagement : every shot fired under a distance of 850-900m will hit 150m behind the target.

the missile can hit only if the target is farther than 900m.

this is obviously due to the fact that the missile don't adapt his flight altitude to the target range, taking automatically lots of altitude whatever the range.

before the latest missileguidance code modification the Hellfire-K could directly fall onto close target.

- at distance over 1000m the missile hit the target but not with top attack trajectory. During the last 300m the missile flies close to the ground level making unpredictable bouncing.

none of these bugs were present before

Nothing in the code you have has changed since you posted this ticket. :P

Fix is being tested now.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

ah. this explains that...

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Missiles are now hitting fairly reliably within 1500m, usually within 1m of the laser dot. The closer you get to 500m though the worse the results are though (and this is fairly realistic according to accounts from users). Also, as in real life, the higher the launch platform the longer the minimum range is. Also off bore shots require a longer range.

Improved some oscillations and such that were seen at high FPS as well as improved the pop-up code (before the missile was failing to pop up above certain altitudes of launch).

Commit should be within an hour or so.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

  • File ace_sys_air_fcs.pbo added
  • File ace_sys_missileguidance.pbo added
  • Assignee changed from Nou to cyrilator
  • % Done changed from 10 to 50

Cheers, please confirm fix. Will put up on SU for hotfix once confirmed.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

i think i installed the new files correctly. after trying it i can't see any differences.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

  • Assignee changed from cyrilator to Nou

Overwrote the existing files, and didn't verify and repair with SU (as that would revert the changes) ?

Hmm, Nou?

Updated by HyperU2 over 3 years ago

Overwritten, verified in SU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7bs7NMT48o

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

HyperU2's video link also show that same bugs are still there :

- hellfire-K still don't hit in top attack but at ground level with anormal bouncing movements, causing target hit miss.
- still no Time Of Flight displayed for Hellfire-K.

Close target engagement (500m) is not showed in the video, but it's still bugged when I test it by myslef : missile goes too high in the sky and land undreads meters behind the target.

it would be wiser to put the previous Hellfire-K config back (before all those bugs occurrences)

Updated by HyperU2 over 3 years ago

I couldn't get in to try 500 meter stuff. I'll have to turn off my AI aggressiveness or try empty vehicles.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Can you give me some more information on when/how you are engaging these targets?

What is the altitude difference between you and the target.

What is your FPS (your frames per second).

Updated by HyperU2 over 3 years ago

That was on Desert with my altitude reading 48 so I'd say it's about there, I wasn't near a hill section. I think my FPS was around 30s, I maxed out to 10k VD. I've seen similar results on Takistan shooting down into the valleys though.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Check out this version of the PBO, it has debug information turned on and a couple little tweaks (mainly for making sure the missile comes down on the target instead of into the target).

Also see this video: http://youtu.be/6RZUnXbMtEs

I have attached the test mission from this video, and also I tested with the helicopter down lower on the hill.

Be aware, this requires the AH-1Z with 16 Hellfires from ACEX (I believe that is an ACEX req).

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

still the same issues. missiles don't fly like in your video ( http://youtu.be/6RZUnXbMtEs ).

- close distance hit is still impossible (500-900m)
- missile still bouncing at ground level at mid and long range engagement.
- No TOF displayed.

i tested with Both Cobra (16HF) and Apache at 48m altitude auto stationary.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

And you are seeing the debug smoke?

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Also, TOF is not fixed in this, I haven't even looked at it so do not expect it to be fixed yet.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

And you are seeing the debug smoke?

no.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

  • File deleted (ace_sys_missileguidance.pbo)

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

cyrilator wrote:

Nou wrote:

And you are seeing the debug smoke?

no.

Then you have not copied the PBO correctly.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Ok i just fixed my pbo instal.

the close range hit impact issue seems resolved. :D

nevertheless there is still issues occuring with some missiles trajectories :

sometimes The missile can fall to the ground before to reach the target, flying very close to the ground surface making bouncing movements. and often hitting an obstacle (buildings, hills)

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQfglBlpI8

in the video the missile trajectory falls before to reach the tank, and hit the foreground hill.

this issue is not systematic and maybe has a link with the ground relief. it's strange that the trajectories can vary that much.

the missiles should never fly under the targets altitudes (when the targets are positioned on hills or mountains) to guarantee top attacks.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

Here's the latest adjustments, seems to include fixes for targets that are above the helo, unsure if related.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

cyrilator wrote:

the missiles should never fly under the targets altitudes (when the targets are positioned on hills or mountains) to guarantee top attacks.

Are you sure thats built into the autopilot? I think the only thing it takes into account for the height is the range to the target.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

...I think the only thing it takes into account for the height is the range to the target.

altitude too, because the missile is supposed to hit target in top attack. the HF gyro-stabilized hardware captor also determine the missile height compared to the target, allowing a precise angle attack.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

Cheers Cyrilator; do you have some sources with details on this?

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

http://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jframe.html#http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/hellfire-trajectory1.gif|||

LOBL trajectories (example with AGM114-A also true for AGM114-K)

the missile altitude flight is determined according to distance but also target altitude :

the missile always stay above the laser beam. if the laser designator ray is pointing higher than the helicopter the missile will adapt and will keep hiting from above.

the missile would never dive under the target level and making bouncing movements at ground level like in my vid link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQfglBlpI8

Updated by Dominges over 3 years ago

I can't find information about such behavior in hellfire autopilot, but i found this interesting article: http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/aat/agm114.html (look for the trajectory pictures at the end of page)

According to this graphics pilot should determine targets height relative to helicopter by himself, and select proper launch mode for target.

This information also telling us, that there is 5 LOAL modes, that's not implemented in ACE atm. Implement them all!

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

Implement them all!

Come join us and go ahead? :P

- Put feature requests / unrelated issues in new tickets please :)

Updated by Veracity over 3 years ago

When playing as pilot with AI gunner, targeting for AGM-114 is completely inop. Gunner is not lasing requested targets at any distance.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

Veracity wrote:

When playing as pilot with AI gunner, targeting for AGM-114 is completely inop. Gunner is not lasing requested targets at any distance.

114K, 114L ?

AFAIK nothing has changed for AI, are you following the usual ACE HellFire AI guide? http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Missile_Guidance_Improvements+howto#AGM-114%20Hellfire

Please provide repro steps.

Updated by Veracity over 3 years ago

Sickboy wrote:

Veracity wrote:

When playing as pilot with AI gunner, targeting for AGM-114 is completely inop. Gunner is not lasing requested targets at any distance.

114K, 114L ?

AFAIK nothing has changed for AI, are you following the usual ACE HellFire AI guide? http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Missile_Guidance_Improvements+howto#AGM-114%20Hellfire

Please provide repro steps.

Directing the AI gunner towards targets using the published method you pointed out above worked until the last SU update. Moreover, I only seem to have issues with the K variant. The L's, while flying a strange trajectory, are nonetheless still getting to their targets. However, with the K variant, the gunner seems to be pointing towards the requested target but the missiles are flying straight away when launched. As though no lasing is taking place.

Quick video example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ec-XmizK4

Thanks.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Just for info, i replaced the AH64 with the LittleBird DAGR guided rocket, and it has exactly the same problems with guided rockets, same trajectories (same protocole as in my video link)

Apache/Cobra/LB DAGR surely share the same missile guidance pbo.

i also tested the same protocole with the AH11 Wildcat CRV7 FAT-PG guided rocket, the guided rocket succeeded to hit target.

does this chopper use a different missileguidance pbo ?.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

I can confirm the AI problems with 114K. Missiles just fly straight.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Sickboy wrote:

I can confirm the AI problems with 114K. Missiles just fly straight.

Check repo and update. Might be better now.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

Cheers, attached fix seems to work, also included the repro mission I used to verify AI.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

.

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

Talking about the AI issue, Nou's hopefully zeroing in on the remaining issues.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

I still need some evidence that the missile takes the altitude of the target into account when firing. As far as I have read it doesn't. It only takes the launch altitude and the distance to the target into account. The missile in your video cyrilator is flying a perfectly normal flight path, its just that the missile assumes the target is below it so it cruises in a downward trajectory.

Updated by Veracity over 3 years ago

Sickboy wrote:

Cheers, attached fix seems to work, also included the repro mission I used to verify AI.

Yes, AI problem seems to be resolved. Trajectories are still a bit strange as there doesn't seem to be much missile popup. They're taking more of a direct route to target. The AI is hitting targets again though and that's what matters most so thank you much! :)

Will "Manual Gunner" option return in the final update?

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Veracity wrote:

Sickboy wrote:

Cheers, attached fix seems to work, also included the repro mission I used to verify AI.

Yes, AI problem seems to be resolved. Trajectories are still a bit strange as there doesn't seem to be much missile popup. They're taking more of a direct route to target. The AI is hitting targets again and that's what matters most so thank you much! :)

Will "Manual Gunner" option return in the final update?

AI do not use the same guidance system as human players sadly (actually it might be possible, if there is a human pilot but I have not looked in to it).

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Talking to a user of the Hellfire in real life. He said that a target that far above the helicopter would be outside of launch constraints and the missile would refuse to fire in real life.

The question is how to implement the inability to fire. :(

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

The missile in your video cyrilator is flying a perfectly normal flight path, its just that the missile assumes the target is below it so it cruises in a downward trajectory.

No, you can clearly see that the missile don't attack t72 in Top attack, the trajectory is not constant, the missile fell 200-300m before to reach the T72 range. this is why it hit the foreground hill. If i had lasered a bit higher the missile would have passed the hill hitting the T72, but making bouncing movements at ground level.

with normal trajectory the Missile would keep altitude until the last moment and hit the tank with top attack angle.

He said that a target that far above the helicopter would be outside of launch constraints and the missile would refuse to fire in real life.

it depend of the missile trajectory

Of course if your target is 500m above your chopper (moutains), with few range (1000m) the laser designator will transmit out of range parameters, incompatible with the missile flight aptitude.

Inability to fire should be calculated by the maximum flight altitude of the AGM-114K depending of the range :

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/hellfire-trajectory1.gif

these are the LOBL laser guided trajectories. if a target is above these trajectories, any shot will be impossible.

could you script these exact trajectories as target engagement limitation ?

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

I set up the same shot in your video. The target is almost 250m above the helicopters launch position.

That is assuming you placed your helicopter at the southern airfield at the western end of the run way.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

I calculated 190m difference for 2700m range.

this doesn't explain the premature missile diving trajectory.

this diving trajectory should have occured later, above the tank. allowing to avoid the hill impact and making a perfect top attack trajectory.

i'm sure it just need a little trajectory fix to resolve it.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Its not really diving as steeply as you think. I replicated the same shot and its doing a 1 degree dive to maintain speed while on approach to the target terminal dive point. It only looks very steep because of the perspective you are viewing it from, very far away in an close field of view from BELOW. Thats the main issue.

And you are right, in real life if the target is out of launch constraints (the designator and seeker can designate/see outside of its launch constraints) the FCS in the helicopter will prevent the missile from leaving the rails. How to get that in game is the tricky part (the game is not exactly great at preventing you from firing).

Also remember that the images you linked of the trajectory is for the A model. For the K model the trajectory max height is much much lower. Please look at table 5-10 on this page: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/1-140/CH5.HTM

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU1ukWWOFqg

In this video two Hellfire-K are shot from ground level at 2345-2625m range, with +22.5° elevation.

this is exactly the kind of shot style like in my arma2 video link.

watch carefully how the missiles are approaching the target : from above the laser designator line.

this is maybe not a very pronounced diving angle, but still enough to hit from above this laser line

the video also show the HF-Ks never cut the laser beam trajectory and never fly under it (which could lead to obstacles hit failure, like in my arma2 vid link).

this kind of trajectory is a determinant factor for the HellFire's succcess rate.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

cyrilator wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU1ukWWOFqg

In this video two Hellfire-K are shot from ground level at 2345-2625m range, with +22.5° elevation.

this is exactly the kind of shot style like in my arma2 video link.

watch carefully how the missiles are approaching the target : from above the laser designator line.

this is maybe not a very pronounced diving angle, but still enough to hit from above this laser line

the video also show the HF-Ks never cut the laser beam trajectory and never fly under it (which could lead to obstacles hit failure, like in my arma2 vid link).

this kind of trajectory is a determinant factor for the HellFire's succcess rate.

That video is inconclusive because you do not know where the observer is in relation to the launcher.

Cool video though.

Updated by VKing over 3 years ago

There's no major altitude difference between the launcher and the target in that video. (I've been at that range, and the target area is more or less level with the launch area).
The soldiers in the video are from the Norwegian Coastal Jaeger Command, who use hellfires as coastal artillery to engage ships in fjords, so they do very little shooting at targets above them, and rarely have the launchers the same place as the designator, which seems the case in the video as well.

Btw where did you get the numbers for the range from? I don't see them listed anywhere.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

VKing wrote:

Btw where did you get the numbers for the range from? I don't see them listed anywhere.

this is displayed by the CLU, bottom part.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

That video is inconclusive because you do not know where the observer is in relation to the launcher.

there is no evidences that the missile should dive under the laser designation ray before to hit a target.

before this missileguidance bug report, the missile was perfectly able to hit targets from above with the same configuration than in my arma 2 video link.

i just ask for it to be put back.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

You are not seeing a premature downward trajectory! You are looking up at something and the missile is actually in a very shallow dive (-1 degree) at that point which it enters into before it makes a sharp dive into the target. From your angle it looks like its diving sharply into the hill, but its not, its actually coasting into it at a -1 degree glide. :) I verified this by tracing the terrain profile with debug markers and the flight profile. The missile barely clears the hill in the foreground at the apex of its flight and as soon as it enters into its airspeed sustaining shallow dive it impacts the mountain in the front. The missile never gets above the target.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

The missile never gets above the target.

this is not what i'm telling.

i'm telling the missile dive under the laser designator ray.

if it would have stay above it the entire flight time, the missile would have obligatory hit the target from above.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Yes, it will do that, IF (and this is the important part) the missile gets above the target, which it isn't. The missile as far as I know does not take into account the relative altitude of the target to determine the height of its trajectory. Only the distance is considered. It will always climb the same amount based on the distance if its launched 20 meters above the target or 200m below the target. It doesn't take the height of the target into account to determine the height of the pop up.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

The missile as far as I know does not take into account the relative altitude of the target to determine the height of its trajectory. Only the distance is considered. It will always climb the same amount based on the distance if its launched 20 meters above the target or 200m below the target. It doesn't take the height of the target into account to determine the height of the pop up.

We can't really claim it neither, since every LOBL missile trajectory graphic available only show ground level target.

Nothing pretend that the missile can't go higher if the laser is designating target at higher position.

Much higher flight altitudes can be reached with the LOAL-HI mode, so it couldn't be a missile performance limitation issue.

Updated by cyrilator over 3 years ago

http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/jeu-video/hellfire-trajectory,47aed23039e839c051e7fd0884b69fab.png.html

the drawing is based on my video link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQfglBlpI8

we should have the opinion of other peoples to confirm or counter if the hellfire could do the green drawed trajectory (yes i know i'm not Picasso :D)

If other people unanimously reject it, just close this topic as resolved.

Updated by maturin over 3 years ago

I was firing at tanks from 3500 and 2000 meters, piloting an AH-1z on Utes. The first missile was always a hit, but after I had locked on a few different targets, the Hellfire Ks would often fail to lock or hit the ground halfway there. Very bad failure rate.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

maturin wrote:

I was firing at tanks from 3500 and 2000 meters, piloting an AH-1z on Utes. The first missile was always a hit, but after I had locked on a few different targets, the Hellfire Ks would often fail to lock or hit the ground halfway there. Very bad failure rate.

Are you using code in SIX or in the pbo posted here?

Updated by maturin over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

maturin wrote:

I was firing at tanks from 3500 and 2000 meters, piloting an AH-1z on Utes. The first missile was always a hit, but after I had locked on a few different targets, the Hellfire Ks would often fail to lock or hit the ground halfway there. Very bad failure rate.

Are you using code in SIX or in the pbo posted here?

Sorry, I haven't read the topic yet, just corroborating the glitch. Just noticed it.

The problem persists even for AI-controlled chopper. I just watched an AH1-z miss with all but one of its 16 hellfires! Perfect shooting conditions by any standards, too.

Occasional failures to lock are observed with player as AH1-z gunner. With a successful shot, the missile climbs to its attack height. When it glitches, it flies straight.

Glitch also applies to Apache.

Updated by maturin over 3 years ago

With the missileguidance .pbo posted at 20:09, I have observed no failures to lock the missile in a few tests.

Updated by Sickboy about 3 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Resolved
  • % Done changed from 70 to 100

Assuming this as resolved. If still issues please reconfirm after the next update release (RC5), and create a new ticket.

Updated by Sickboy about 3 years ago

  • Status changed from Resolved to Closed

Available in the about to be released ACE for OA 1.13 RC5.

Updated by Sickboy about 3 years ago

Thanks, but it is not useful to add to closed tickets, especially after the release is already available with the changes.
Created a new ticket for the issues: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/27028

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