Bug #2650

Using the 2 Button (target acquisition) gives targets you cannot see.

Added by Alienfreak about 6 years ago. Updated almost 5 years ago.

Status:Expired Start date:07/07/2009
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:Dwarden % Done:

0%

Category:Config
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version:1.05 BETA First affected build:
Reproduced by another DH user:Yes First affected ArmA II version:
I am using some Mods:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using:OA only BIForumURL:
Reproducible for you:No NGUrl:
Related to content of DLC: WIKIurl:

Description

This is a common practice in Multiplayer these days to constantly push 2 for the target menu and just using guided missiles or an AI gunner to engage the target well out of sight.

Sometimes you are able to pick up enemy tanks as targets at 2900 meters (I did so yesterday) while the viewdistance (not the renderdistance) was capped at 2500 meters.

Also sometimes you get info on SOLDIERS that are like 1000 meters away and in woods.

You can also engage Targets well out of the turning radius of your METIS with it. Because your missile can even engage Targets behind you. You just have to push 2.

This is related to a general bug in ArmA which tries to feature a command units to engage an enemy like option but degrades to a pure unrealistic cheating option. Targets should only be acquireable ONLY by rightclicking on them. This ensures that the player only targets things for his missiles or his AI gunner he really spotted.

crysis64_2009-07-08_18-04-32-02.jpg - tank aimable at while being not drawn with maximum viewdistance (120.7 kB) Alienfreak, 07/08/2009 16:10

crysis64_2009-07-08_18-05-59-28.jpg - maximum viewdistance (117.1 kB) Alienfreak, 07/08/2009 16:10


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #1701: Unrealistic, Impossible Detection mechanism (AI AND Player!) Closed 06/01/2009 11/08/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #2671: Object rendering distance != view distance Closed 07/08/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #3807: clairvoyant AI Expired 08/19/2009 07/14/2010
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #13000: "Next target" targets vehicles even behind terrain and ob... Closed 08/17/2010

History

Updated by Squelch about 6 years ago

  • Project changed from DevHeaven (Only site issues) to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker

Updated by Squelch about 6 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Feedback

Please inform us of the affected version and other information. This bug report was posted in the wrong section.

Updated by kju about 6 years ago

Old gameplay issue from OFP.
Can be solved via addons, yet should be an option for MP for sure.

However you need explain it more easily with pictures,
as well as observed via expected structure. Thanks!

Updated by Alienfreak about 6 years ago

Observed:
1. You can assing targets to yourself
2. You can assign targets you clearly cannot see

Expected:
1. Only targets within drawing distance assignable
2. Only targets clearly visible to the player should be assignable (assign via rightclick)
3. It should be able to only assign targets to AIs, not the player himself!

Updated by kju about 6 years ago

Not disagreeing in general.

However radar goes beyond viewable distance.
AI vehicles use long range weapons systems beyond viewable distance.
Locking is needed, currently, for guided weapons at least.
You can only target other units, if you have units at your command.

More practical and simple solution is just to disable the marker
as difficulty option.

PS: The marker is the perceived position and not necessarily the real position.

Updated by Alienfreak about 6 years ago

The PS is the worst part. Even if it is wrong your missile will hit his real position.

Its ok if RADAR shows people beyond sight. But I highly doubt my TOW has a radar.
If you have a radar it is ok to cycle targets acquireable with TAB.
But the 2 Button even comes up with targets not shown on your radar.

Updated by Alienfreak about 6 years ago

IMHO the 2 button is the worst part of the whole game.

It takes all the skill out of it. Why worry what camo a US has and what a RUS?
Why worry how a t90 looks in comparison to a M1?
Why worry if the vehicle you cant identify is friendly or enemy?
Why even take the time to scan the horizon?

You have the magic 2 button. It does it all for you.

Sorry. The Superradar is really bad gameplaywise. But the 2 Button really kills it.
All people just lay around somewhere with METIS or TOW or other guided missiles and smash their 2 button. If you have a tank you drive around and smash the 2 button. Wow
If people want a SNES game in which they have to smash the A and B button theyll buy one. But this is intended to be "the ultimate military simulation" (it is called that on its cover).

Updated by zGuba about 6 years ago

  • Category set to Gameplay
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from Please select... to 1.02.58134

Agree. It is all about the consolish IR scanner and targeting system, that has not been improved since OFP (smaller icons are not the improvement in the terms of gameplay).

Recognition values can be tweaked within config, but the lame IR scanner makes it useless - you get full knowledge about the target too soon.

Updated by Alienfreak about 6 years ago

In addition to the IR Scanner you also have that 2 menu which ONLY shows valuable/enemy targets and even highlights them by putting a box around them when you have guided weapons.

This really kills it.

For OFP it was ok. But OFP was 2001 and this is 2009. We should at least see SOME progress there...

Updated by Fireball about 6 years ago

  • Due date set to 09/13/2009
  • Difficulty set to Not set

Alright, we have today version 1.03 (and betas) where stuff has been adjusted and some unrealistic detection cases were fixed. We still have the case that if "UNKNOWN" targets are detected, the AI knows if it's an enemy and you can tab-select it and know that it only selects enemies (those issues are related).

But I also know from experience, that you can only mark and/or see revealed units through the action menu cursor. This, though, also applies if any friendly unit has revealed the enemy unit at some point in time and you have some "knowsabout" value still present.

So everything mentioned in the comments and description can be boiled down to the following bugs or issues (mostly by design):

1. action menu cursor shows revealed enemy units
2. revealed enemy units knowsabout is shared within allied units (probably okay, if it wasn't for the action menu cursor)
3. enemy AND "unknown" enemy units are "tab-selectable"

I think the first issue is this bug reports is about, can we agree on that? So we could make this a Feature request (since it's by design) to prevent the game displaying revealed enemy units with the action cursor.

The second issue is probably alright for regular modes, since you can see enemy units based on knowsabout marked on the map, but it makes AI more knowledgable in veteran mode than the player, since the player maybe hears one call but does not have a moving "knowsabout" estimate. If this is an issue, it should be ticketed separately. It's probably also where some comments in #1701 come from.

The third issue is probably related to #3807; I'll add a comment to it accordingly, so it can be tracked in the other ticket.

Updated by Fireball almost 6 years ago

I think I've confused spacebar (action cursor) and 2 menu (target). Just realized what the reporter meant.

EDIT: But it still stands: only what was detected once is shown in the target (2) menu, thus it's not completetly unconnected.

Updated by Fireball almost 6 years ago

  • Due date changed from 09/13/2009 to 10/13/2009
  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned

Updated by Fireball almost 6 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback
  • Reproduced by another DH user set to No
  • CPU set to Please specify!

Basically this boils down to "knowsabout" decreases too slowly.

I think it's not that bad after all - you can assign targets to AI you maybe cannot see right now, but they yelled it out at some point, so they saw it. But after a while, even though the target is still listed, the knowsabout is so imprecise, they won't be able to find it or lock on to it unless they're lucky.

Still don't see how this is so bad.

Since the clairvoyant AI, which is gonna be revised in 1.05, covers this issue, I'm tempted to mark this one a duplicate of #3807.

Updated by Fireball almost 6 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Duplicate

Updated by zGuba almost 6 years ago

Result of #2671 and #3807

Updated by zGuba almost 6 years ago

  • Due date changed from 10/13/2009 to 11/13/2009
  • Status changed from Duplicate to Assigned
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.02.58134 to 1.04.59026

Not a duplicate.

Updated by zGuba almost 6 years ago

  • Category changed from Gameplay to Config
  • Reproduced by another DH user changed from No to Yes

Updated by Dwarden almost 6 years ago

  • Assignee set to Dwarden

Updated by kju almost 6 years ago

  • Due date changed from 11/13/2009 to 01/02/2010
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.04.59026 to 1.05 BETA

No change here. :(

ASR Disable Cursor Text by Robalo [AS]

Disables the text client side.

Updated by Fireball almost 5 years ago

  • Due date changed from 01/02/2010 to 09/18/2010
  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback
  • Reproducible for you set to No

I think this one has been improved. Feedback please.

Updated by kju almost 5 years ago

Well this ticket is somewhat a mess.
It contains various issues and change requests.

I would vote to start over with new tickets per issue.

Updated by kju almost 5 years ago

  • Due date deleted (09/18/2010)
  • Status changed from Feedback to Expired

No feedback, therefore expired.

Please reopen if still an issue.

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