Bug #26202

Non-lethal headshots: hits to cheek register as hits to helmet (ACE wounds)

Added by maturin almost 4 years ago. Updated over 3 years ago.

Status:Rejected Start date:11/06/2011
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:Sonsalt % Done:

20%

Category:-
Target version:-
Component:sys_wounds Affected Version:
Close Reason:Technical Implications

Description

Evidence suggests that shooting a soldier in the side of his face has the same effect as shooting him in the helmet. Shooting his face from the front has the expected effect of incapacitating him with one shot.

This is best tested with a low power pistol like a Makarov PM. Shoot any helmeted soldier in the helmet, mouth and side jaw in three separate tests with ACE wounds enabled.

I don't know if ACE is just using faulty hitboxes created by BIS. I asked as much on the forums, but no one would tell me, so here's the ticket.

History

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Assigned
  • Assignee set to Sonsalt
  • Target version set to 1.13
  • Component set to sys_wounds

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

The hit registering is not something we can really change, and custom calculating it isn't very feasable.

However we could perhaps lower the armor on the head, if the helmet has proper material and penetration settings, the bullet should ricochet or be stopped based on material settings.
If the bullet penetrates the helmet, I think it's fine that the unit should die on first hit.

So the big question is; are helmet materials properly simulated? If they are (or we can fix it), we could apply said changes.

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback
  • % Done changed from 0 to 20

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

It is not simulated. The helmet hit selection does not even exist in BIS soldier models with a helmet. This concludes that shooting at the head of units w/o a helmet works correctly and this ticket should perhaps be transformed into a feature request for the CIT, if at all.

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

There are only 4 hit selections - no helmet_hit that is correct, but material penetration has little to do with hit selection afaik, simply the rvmat/bisurf for the head / helmet should determine if bullet penetrates the material, and if it penetrates it, then the hit selection on the unit is triggered.
If it doesnt penetrate it, then it either shouldn't register the hit at all, or at 0 or very low damage.

If that is simulated then we can possibly drop head_hit armor on the soldiers with helmets (assuming that's how we handle helmets), and rely on the material penetration / ricochet.
And basically solve this ticket with it.

Updated by maturin almost 4 years ago

In my experience, helmets will only save you from pistol rounds at close range. It's difficult to test terminal ballistics on so small a target at range.

Most pistols will require several shots to incapacitate if fired at a helmet. Each round will introduce pain and sometimes bleeding that non-medic units are capable of bandaging. This is substantially weaker than American and Russian body armor.

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

rocko wrote:

It is not simulated. ... other text ...

Updated by maturin almost 4 years ago

Do you think I'm imagining something here? I don't know what you mean by "not simulated" because the bottom line is, units survive pistol hits to the helmet with minimal injury, yet die from hits to face and neck. Non-helmeted units die instantly from all headshots. I have established this with several builds of ACE and no other substantive mods running. There is something there, whoever it was that put it there I don't know.

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

Sorry, it was directed at Sickboy not you (maturin).
Thought having read the whole convo would be clear to everyone involved that my self-quote was the answer to Sickboys big question (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/26202#note-2)

So the big question is; are helmet materials properly simulated?

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

PS No need to freak out :)

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Rejected
  • Target version changed from 1.13 to Arma 3
  • Close Reason set to Technical Implications

So where was Sonsalt now to fix this?

Anyway, there is no armor.rvmat on the head selection of the model.
Nor is a helmet modelled for units that have a helmet.

My advice: CIT A3 Feature request. NOW!! :D

Updated by Sickboy over 3 years ago

  • Target version deleted (Arma 3)

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