Feature #23473

Kamov handling shouldn't be the same as other helicopters

Added by Qazdar almost 4 years ago. Updated about 2 years ago.

Status:Assigned Start date:08/15/2011
Priority:Normal Due date:12/15/2011
Assignee:- % Done:

0%

Category:Game physics
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version: First affected ArmA II version:
Reproduced by another DH user:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using some Mods:No BIForumURL:
I am using: NGUrl:
Reproducible for you:No WIKIurl:
Related to content of DLC:

Description

I hesistated a lot before posting this:

OBS

As we all know,the Kamov is not like other helicopters in the game,because it has double rotor and nothing in the back,so this should allow it to realize some special maneuvers to compensate it gun's small angles.

EXP

When helicopter is not in auto hover mod,and flying in a certain direction,it should be able to rotate around itself using the X and C keys.

In real life

I didn't find a written proof about this (i'm still looking for it though),but i found this interesting video showing the concerned maneuver in minute 0:53 and 1:54.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMzV1h2Q274&feature=related

Other helicopters can't perform it because of the resistance provided by the rear rotor.

History

Updated by Qazdar almost 4 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by zGuba almost 4 years ago

  • Due date set to 12/15/2011
  • Category set to Game physics
  • Status changed from New to Assigned
  • Affected ArmA II version deleted (Please select...)
  • Maxmem parameter deleted (Not set)
  • Difficulty deleted (Not set)
  • Language deleted (Please set for missions)

Updated by CarlGustaffa almost 4 years ago

Votes yes. Have the community attempted to fix this? Or isn't it possible? It's not something I would worry too much about for A2/OA flight model though, if the fix is far fetched.

With A3 however, and especially with it's TAKOH flight model - does the flight model used permit such definitions (counter rotating props without anti torque prop) at all?

Would be nice to have these advantages show through (if possible).

Updated by Vipera over 3 years ago

You can do this maneuver with the current flight model but your speed should be small to start it. Here is example what I did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NZVaFXvMzs
I voted Yes to improve this ability for Ka-52 helicopter.

Updated by BlackRussian over 3 years ago

Obviously not only a Kamov issue but a general Arma one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nXsqbGx5Mc

Updated by Vipera over 3 years ago

I would like to see improvements on Ka-52 flight model as Qazdar described. Actually we need ability to rotate helicopter around Z axis on higher speeds then we can now.

Updated by Max_Power about 3 years ago

I tested the behaviour in game and it is very similar to the information published by kamov, other manufacturers, and first person accounts by qualified pilots.

In game, the maximum flight speed at which you can maneuver the helicopter into sideways flight is 60km/h. The maximum flight speed you can sustain sideways flight remains untested, but it is beyond 130 km/h.

The kamov-published maximum sideways flightspeed for the Ka-50 is 70km/h.

I then tested with my own addon, an ah-1. It uses a lift vs. speed envelope identical to the ah-1z, and it is slightly lighter. It uses the same ballast block weight distribution control that BIS seems to have used. It tested identically to the Kamov. Based on this, I tentatively conclude that the sideways flight behaviour is the same for all attack helicopters in ArmA 2 OA.

The website 'ColdWarExhibition' states, "the SuperCobra can fly backwards at up to 33 knots (61 kph/38 mph) and sideways at up to 39 knots (72.2 kph/44.8mph) when fully loaded". The 1995 issue of the flight magazine 'Flight Archive' said, "To help offload some of the yaw, the vertical fin is offset and has an angled trailing edge. The AH-1W is limited to 35kt sideways and 30kt backwards flight. This is to allow such manoeuvres at maximum operating weight at altitude and still give the pilot a 10% control margin in hand. We were by now fairly light, so I took it to an estimated 45-50kt sideways flight to the left and needed full right pedal".

The supercobra has a two bladed rotar system, similar to the AH-1S(MC), but two engines, similar to the AH-1Z. I'm using the AH-1W here to show the similarities in helicopter flight envelopes in general. The Ah-1 uses a rather clumsy, large, teetering rotor with a smaller anti-torque rotor; while the kamov uses a light, multi-bladed, contra-rotating rotor.

It would seem that ArmA 2 is actually fairly accurate at least in terms of the way it simulates yaw authority at the maximum sideways flight of helicopters, albeit they are somewhat generalized. Where it seems to diverge from reality in a big way, is the ability of helicopters to sustain sideways flight well beyond their real life maximums.

Updated by Qazdar about 3 years ago

Well,

It's not that obvious in the game,when the kamov is moving at that speed player should be able to move sideways just by pressing C or X.

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