Bug #22334

Bug with Map tools rulers size

Added by PKozik over 3 years ago. Updated over 3 years ago.

Status:Expired Start date:07/14/2011
Priority:Low Due date:08/17/2011
Assignee:Nou % Done:

0%

Category:Texture
Target version:-
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

In game the map has scale 1:50000, that means that 10 millimetre = 500м.
On the tool there are two rulers for this scale. The first has the correct sizes. And here the second ruler, millimetric, is stretched on 5-7% that gives is inadmissible the big error of measurement.
It very well is visible on the enclosed pictures - the mark of 20 millimetres should coincide with square border on a map on 2km from zero point, and mark of 100 on 5km.

ACE - latest.

Incorrect_ruler.jpg (68.5 kB) PKozik, 07/14/2011 19:26

Correct_ruler.jpg (65.5 kB) PKozik, 07/14/2011 19:26

compass-grid-size-mismatch.png (531.7 kB) MaHuJa, 08/01/2011 17:47

8digit_grid.png (129.7 kB) PKozik, 08/02/2011 22:18

History

Updated by Xeno over 3 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Assigned
  • Assignee set to Nou
  • Target version set to 1.12

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

  • Category set to Texture
  • Priority changed from Normal to Low

The MM measurements are for the most part decorative, but I guess I should change them, same thing for the inches. :P

Updated by PKozik over 3 years ago

These are good news. Thanks!
Because very conveniently and simply to measure distances at once by a ruler.

Updated by MaHuJa over 3 years ago

"The MM measurements are for the most part decorative,"

I don't believe that for 0.001 seconds.
They were a perfect match for the map scale - until somebody decided they wanted to double its size. IMHO a perfect example of a change that broke more than it fixed.

My two complaints in particular:
- The right side ruler (top on attached images) was perfect for measuring distance. It was a pure power-of-ten difference between the marks and the distance represented.
- The "grid enhancer" - the four boxes lower left side. The original size had them match up perfectly with map grids. Determining the 8 digit grid would be easy if it still worked. This capability was discarded, basically on a whim.

My suggestions:

- Revert the compass resize.
This would fix everything they broke when they did that.
I think it was a matter of real maps supposedly being 1:50000 rather than 1:25000 or so; I don't remember the exact values. Therefore they... doubled the compass size. I'm sure it made sense to somebody. It must have.
Btw, May I have a half-size compass with that please?

- Fix the scales for the new compass size
As this issue originally complained about.

- Add a separate tool that allows measuring the (sub-) grids, and possibly a ruler matching the scale of the map. Perhaps even giving measurements in meters - even though such a device could not be reused for other map sizes. Then again, the upsized compass was made under the pretense there is only one map size we need think about, right? If you're really reluctant to add stuff not issued by military, make it a look like a slip of paper you can overlay on the map, that i could have measured up and made myself.

I suggest going with the revert. That's a very simple job to do, and it will fix ALL these problems.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Actually it wouldn't. I never accurately laid out anything other than the rulers to the right size. :) From the get go I never calibrated those scales.

I do not plan to revert it either, the tool is fare more useful at this size than it is at half the size. Before you could only measure out to 1600 meters on the out ruler, you can now measure out to double that.

Why are you even using the MM or Inches tool anyways? They are a far shorter measuring tool than the outer edge scale ruler, which is very easy to use, just multiply whatever value you get by 2.

Updated by MaHuJa over 3 years ago

The outer scale ruler is the one I've been using - just see the youtube video I made for manual m119 calculation using the map tools and tables if you don't believe me. Those videos were made before the resize. I kinda preferred it without the non-10 multiplication.

> I never accurately laid out anything other than the rulers to the right size.
I'm unable to take screenshots right now (technical reasons), but if you line up the edges of that grid with the map grid, you'll find that they're an exact match for a 2x2 map grid. EXACT. Go ahead. Try it. So, did someone else fix it, or was it just scaled correctly on the source material so it matched when the part you did adjust matched?

In any case, it broke with the upscaled compass. The texture resolution is becoming a problem at that scale too. If you really won't relent on it, how much work is it to make the compass size userconfig-urable? I might take it on myself if I have to.

There's another problem with the map tools; they don't downsize when zooming out on the map - when the map is displayed as part of certain dialogs. Thus you get a compass that covers half the map of takistan. This problem, while a separate bug, is far worsened by the upsizing.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

No, no one fixed it. The images were not changed at all when I changed the scale either, I literally put in a WIDTH*2 and HEIGHT*2 in the calculations where before it was just WIDTH and HEIGHT.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

OK, here are some screenshots, tell me how this was not broken in the original (like I said, I never intended for the millimeter ruler to be accurate, and when I say millimeter ruler, I mean the one that is running down the left side and at the bottom is marked 100mm).

Here is the original size.

Here is the new size.

So? Which one is correct? I see both of them as being wrong, or at least not matching to anything useful.

Updated by MaHuJa over 3 years ago

(The first part of this turned into a rant. Sorry 'bout that.)

Assuming you've actually read what I've written; so let me reinforce the meaning of the words I've written above.
Ruler: http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1647&bih=960&q=ruler&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=
Grid: http://images.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1647&bih=960&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=grid&btnG=Search&oq=grid&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=41533l42181l0l46327l4l3l0l0l0l0l210l353l2.0.1l3l0

You're looking at a completely different spot from what I'm looking at and writing about.

There's the right edge, the mm ruler. Currently scaled 1mm=20m, I did prefer 1mm=10m.
Then, there's the GRID (not ruler) on the other side of the compass. The screenshot I'm attaching should make it abundantly clear what I'm talking about.

This (broken) feature has the sole purpose of determining the least-significant digits (4th, 8th) of an 8-digit gridref.
It is located further in than the inches ruler.

To fix it, the options are
- revert the size change, (or make it optionally sized) and it's automatically fixed.
- double the size each dimension of the compass texture, and redraw/refit the grid to be half the size.
- provide a tool separate from the compass with such grids correctly sized when the user has the map tools

Updated by PKozik over 3 years ago

MaHuJa wrote:

There's the right edge, the mm ruler. Currently scaled 1mm=20m, I did prefer 1mm=10m.

Now a map scale is 1:50000: 10mm=500m, 1mm=50m. Why 1mm must be 10m? This is not 1:10000 scale map.

Where are you get this big-sized 8-digit grid?? I has another one, attached it whith marker at 04751203.

But measurement of distances by means of a separate ruler will be interesting new function.
At first to draw a line (it is standard, with the help [, ]) and then, pressing the separate button (alt+shift+\ etc) to make measurement of length of a line. Or draw millimetric ruler near the line for manual reading.

In the same way it is possible to measure length of curves, having realized digital curve-meter.

Updated by PKozik over 3 years ago

PKozik wrote:

MaHuJa wrote:

There's the right edge, the mm ruler. Currently scaled 1mm=20m, I did prefer 1mm=10m.

Now a map scale is 1:50000: 10mm=500m, 1mm=50m. Why 1mm must be 10m? This is not 1:10000 scale map.

Where are you get this big-sized 8-digit grid?? I has another one, attached it whith marker at 04751203.

LOL. Had look at my pictures one more time and take you point of view :)
8-digit grid has incorrect size - it must be halfed for map scale 1:50000.

Updated by MaHuJa over 3 years ago

Oops, I think I wrote a wrong scale. And perhaps a wrong name...

THe right side edge ruler, going from 0 to 16 in numbered steps of 2 - and its equivalent at the top, 0 through 14 (looks like it's 15 wide). This number, at the old scale, corresponded to the map such that 10 = 1km. This made distance measurement something that required no thought at all. Multiplying by 2 is not an advanced operation to do, except it requires "mode-switching" my brain to arithmetic, and worse, back (aka "what was I doing again", "what did I need this number for").

But the grid...
My applications are mostly artillery related;
Even it its current mis-size, it's more accurate than eyeball guessing, but not so much it's worth the bother unless you're trying to place an excalibur. Were it the right size, i'd probably use it anytime that extra accuracy means anything. (Exceptions being illum, sadarm, questionably mines, high-burst dpicm)

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback

Will close this ticket in a week. If a request is to be made about the size of the 8 digit grid hack then please make a new ticket specifically for that. Any other comments or suggestions based on the "decorative" millimeter and inch markings should be made now. As of now I do not consider them worth fixing for scale as I do not see a real use for them.

Updated by PKozik over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

Actually it wouldn't. I never accurately laid out anything other than the rulers to the right size. :) From the get go I never calibrated those scales.

I do not plan to revert it either, the tool is fare more useful at this size than it is at half the size. Before you could only measure out to 1600 meters on the out ruler, you can now measure out to double that.

Why are you even using the MM or Inches tool anyways? They are a far shorter measuring tool than the outer edge scale ruler, which is very easy to use, just multiply whatever value you get by 2.

In comparison with millimeters, this tool has the worst accuracy (2x time).
For the sniper it the maximum accuracy of calculation is very important. As well as for the forward observer too.

If you don't have possibility a little to compress a millimetric scale, I ask to give me initial images in TGA that I have helped to correct them.

Updated by Nou over 3 years ago

Seeing that this is how it is scaled in real life I find questions about its accuracy not that important. Besides, there IS a correctly scaled ruler on there still. It is the one marked 1:50000. It is only 1000m long though.

Updated by PKozik over 3 years ago

Nou wrote:

Seeing that this is how it is scaled in real life I find questions about its accuracy not that important. Besides, there IS a correctly scaled ruler on there still. It is the one marked 1:50000. It is only 1000m long though.

This way I should make measurements, and then reduce result by 5 %. I am right? At distance measurement in 800м the error in 5 % is equal 40м that it is enough not to get on the purpose.
Or to use the big ruler, and to receive an error in 50 meters (irrespective of the measured distance).

Updated by rocko over 3 years ago

  • Due date set to 08/17/2011
  • Status changed from Feedback to Expired
  • Target version deleted (1.12)

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