Feature #20112

Restore MH6J_EP1 and AH6J_EP1 to OA speed/control

Added by dslyecxi almost 4 years ago. Updated over 2 years ago.

Status:Rejected Start date:05/28/2011
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:

0%

Category:-
Target version:-
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:Obsolete

Description

Could the previous 'normal' OA MH6/AH6 be restored, with the new variants (with the changed flight models) being added as different/additional classes?

The rationale is simply that the new FMs, even when tweaked, bring with them some odd flight behavior that makes them less useful (and more importantly, less fun) than their lower-speed predecessors.

History

Updated by Huggy almost 4 years ago

Dunno if i can fully suport this request.
In my oppinion a tweaking of the flight model makes more sense.

I like the speed the new ones have as well was the turn rates.

A problem is that the birds tend to gain altitude when you put the nose up to brake; basically loosing speed is a problem while keeping altitude.

One thing i noticed is that the acceleration is a bit too much slightly decresed gain of speed would not hurt, as said top speed is good.

Updated by Scubaman3D almost 4 years ago

Thats exactly what we were trying to do. Dsl and I were working together on the tweaking.

The tweaked flight model has reduced some of the problems associated with the current model and will be included in the next release. The acceleration has been smoothed out to be less drastic in a dive and the handling characteristics are generally improved, although it does not have as solid handling as the OA vanilla model. The helo now cruises at a slightly slower speed since the current model can cruise above the H6's IRL max speed.

There is still a bit of an issue with altitude gain while flaring up at speeds above 120 and rudder control is all but lost once you're over 180. I think this is because the sink rate is too low in the game and rudder control is hard-coded. Raising the sink rate amounts to removing lift, which will make it more difficult to pull the helo out of a dive. Basically flight modeling in the ArmA series is quite primitive. It appears some of the issues are simply hard-wired into the game engine and can only be minimized, not eliminated.

To quote the wise RKSL on the matter "Its all a balancing trick...a lot of it is about a compromise".

I have made the suggestion to enable the OA classes so that at least if people like the old FM better, they can use it still.

Updated by Huggy almost 4 years ago

Thanks for the info and your hard work.

If there are 2 types of Little Bird put a sticker on the slow one "Slow Mofo - please be patient!" LOL (joking)

As a work in progress solution it might be ok but at the end we should end up with 1 model

If ya need help testing drop me a note (i like to fly that little bugger)

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

I expect the "Make-Or-Break" rule is kept in mind.

Updated by Zach almost 4 years ago

Scubaman3D wrote:

"rudder control is all but lost once you're over 180."

Past a certain speed the tail rotor does not have enough power to yaw the AC. Thats how it works, try getting shot at and losing the tail rotor, if you are going fast enough you can fly just find.

I do find all the helos lose stability at high speeds, but its nothing really unrealistic.

Updated by Scubaman3D almost 4 years ago

of course I'm familiar with this principle. I'm just not certain that you would loose THAT much rudder control at that low of a speed IRL. I'm thinking about fixed wing aircraft which still have rudder at speeds 2x this number.

Updated by Zach almost 4 years ago

Scubaman3D wrote:

of course I'm familiar with this principle. I'm just not certain that you would loose THAT much rudder control at that low of a speed IRL. I'm thinking about fixed wing aircraft which still have rudder at speeds 2x this number.

Fixed wing aircraft use the power of the air moving over the tail to move the AC. So they get better rudder control the fast they go, for the most part. Helos just have the tail rotor, and past a certain speed the air moving over the vertical stabilizer over powers what the tail rotor can output. At high speeds helos fly more like a fixed wing aircraft then most think.

Updated by DarkWanderer almost 4 years ago

Well, the word "overpowers" is a little bit arguable. There is no momentary "click", when rudder suddenly stops working - it is rather a smooth curve of decreasing maximum achievable yaw deflection. Between the critical angles (plus-minus 15 degrees yaw) it is roughly ~(1/v^2) - so, actually, a noticeable amount of control should be maintained even at top speeds.
Maybe, someone tries the Hughes 500 369D in another sim (say, FSX) and compares?..

Updated by rocko over 3 years ago

  • Target version set to Arma 3

Updated by rocko over 3 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Rejected
  • Target version deleted (Arma 3)
  • Close Reason set to Obsolete

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