Bug #20042

kh-29L Laser aim broken (since 1.59)

Added by admin about 6 years ago. Updated almost 6 years ago.

Status:Closed Start date:05/25/2011
Priority:Normal Due date:06/03/2011
Assignee:q1184 % Done:


Target version:1.11
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:


By MrCharles:
With 1.59 OA, the laser target is not created at the cross at the top of the hud, but lower. Hitting anything with the kh-29l is a pain in the ass now, as it seems the target is created randomly at any position of the HUD.

aim_point_for_su25.jpg (345.9 kB) foxwuj, 06/22/2011 12:11

aim_point_for_su30.jpg (299.9 kB) foxwuj, 06/22/2011 12:11

aim_point_su34.jpg (438.9 kB) foxwuj, 06/22/2011 12:11

rpt.txt (1.2 kB) maturin, 07/15/2011 00:20

Related issues

related to A.C.E. for OA - Feature #8904: Kh-29L FCS Closed 02/07/2010
related to A.C.E. for OA - Feature #11285: Kh-29L FCS - Adjust laser marker position by "arrow" keys Closed 06/16/2010
related to A.C.E. for OA - Bug #17212: The Su-25 RU Des laser is pointing at the wrong spot and ... Closed 02/01/2011
duplicated by A.C.E. for OA - Bug #20504: Su-25 Kh-29 laser target does not appear on main gun cros... Duplicate 06/20/2011


Updated by Sickboy about 6 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Assigned
  • Assignee set to q1184
  • Target version set to 1.11

rpt and repro mission required.

Updated by Sickboy about 6 years ago

  • Due date set to 06/03/2011
  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback

Updated by foxwuj about 6 years ago

ACE version 488 DL from six, only running ACE no other mod not even beta
1.59 patch (who isn't on 1.59 patch really~~~~)

just took su30 and su25 for a fly the kh-29l work totally normally for me on both jet....

ther is a fix laz aim point on the hud differ according to the jet, try find it.

Updated by q1184 about 6 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned

I assume BIS changed something in the HUD so the cross is no longer aligned with the plane's direction. Calls for a scripted aiming mark.

Updated by foxwuj about 6 years ago

did another test today, not thing wrong ehhhh every thing work normally, like always...

mr admin (i ment the guy that report it not u DEV haven admin) ther is a fix laz aim point on the hud differ according to the jet, try find it.

Updated by rocko about 6 years ago

hoax? can be set to expired/rejected, yes?

Updated by foxwuj about 6 years ago

well i guess u r not asking me rocko... but in my opinion yes its a hoax, mr admin (i ment the guy that report it not u DEV heaven admin)u should update ur ACE or alteast follow up with ur ticket....

repo step of how i test the KH29 system

1: start game with ACEmod only no other mod.... 488 dl from six (latest version)
2: try Su30, SU25, SU34 on different map with aleast 1 offical map
3: laz, fire, check the point of aim

Updated by maturin about 6 years ago

It's not a hoax. I just made a duplicate ticket, running the latest version of ACE.

And I tested it on the runway, where it was completely clear that the aiming mark corresponded to nothing on the HUD

Updated by Sickboy about 6 years ago

Not sure but I think I remember a limitation that you need to be in the air, but I can be wrong.

Updated by maturin about 6 years ago

Rest assured that it doesn't work in the air either. I was just investigating where the point of aim actually was.

Updated by foxwuj about 6 years ago

tested it again with latest ACE 490 DL from SIX and 1.59 patch no other mod... still working

well some time i do run into the problem with KH29 not locking (lazed but can't tab lock) but it will eventually work (tab lock work again after laz) all on its own...

may be because i gave it time to load the pbo or script,,, don't what is the bloody reason...

Updated by q1184 almost 7 years ago

  • % Done changed from 0 to 70

I'm in the process of a major overhaul of the targeting/guidance system for Kh-29L, aimed at improving the ease of use and reliability. Guidance is now scripted to get rid of the quirky Tab-lock system. However, Tab-locking is still possible and should be used for externally-designated targets. Aiming is carried out using the cross on the HUD.
WIP video available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LroW5hBqCcg

Updated by q1184 almost 6 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to Resolved
  • % Done changed from 70 to 100

Updated by Sickboy almost 6 years ago

Big Woo-Hoo.

Updated by Sickboy almost 6 years ago

  • Status changed from Resolved to Closed

Available in latest ACE for OA 1.11 RC3.

Updated by maturin almost 6 years ago

q1184: Will the neww lasing system be as reliable as the Hellfire system? Currently my Su-25 laser is massively unreliable, with false minimum range readings, 'Lasing Off' messages and simple ignored keystrokes. I suspect this may be down to FPS, but can't be sure.

Updated by Sickboy almost 6 years ago

Thanks for posting here Maturin.

Can you reproduce the issue in the Editor, with just the plane? What about other addons?
rpt is really helpful in nearly all cases because it gives insight into the situation.

The kh29l system uses the same PerFrameHandler implementation as the Hellfires, so the difference in reliability seems odd.

Updated by maturin almost 6 years ago

It is difficult to test such a thing systematically, given the speed of the aircraft.

Are there any limitations I should know about?
Such as, can I lase water? Do you know a command I could use to freeze the plane in mid-air?

I plan on testing the system while on taxiing, aiming at a distant mountain.

Updated by maturin almost 6 years ago

I just ran a bunch of tests, Sickboy, and I don't know what to tell you!

I am having an awfully hard time drawing clear conclusions. Sometimes the laser works, and sometimes it does not. I really only have anecdotal evidence.

With this new, streamlined system (no pressing Tab to lock on the lased target) it is much more reliable. I can be very effective aiming the Kh-29s and it is really, really fun. It's like a little bit of Mando Missiles in ACE 2. But my inconclusive findings are as follows:

On Shapur, it seems to work perfectly. Note that this is the map with the best performance imaginable.

On Utes, with a map full of targets (although few AI), it usually works. I can be quite accurate and destructive with the things. Only the laser has a tendency to become unresponsive for minutes at a time. This may correspond with 'Lasing Off' Messages. It may be accompanied by false 'Minimum Range' readings, or the button may simply fail to respond.

When the laser does NOT work, the Spacebar keystroke typically brings up the command menu. This suggests that the game is not recognizing the ability to lase at all. It is not just the functionality that fails, but the keybinding.

Note: When the laser is unresponsive, the default Action Menu button is sometimes Eject. When all is well, the default selection is Designation On.

Also, I have never had much luck lasing water.

These findings suggest that FPS can disrupt lasing, but I disabled all mods besides ACE, the FPS reader mod included. Also, I experienced smooth performance at almost all times during the tests. In order to be effective with Kh-29s, you need about 4000m view distance. Perhaps having a lot of objects on-screen can disrupt the laser, just as it can make BI's IR lasers and flashlights to fail...

And you say that the Kh-29s use the Hellfire system. This is odd because I have never had a Hellfire fail before. Perhaps the Kh-29 system is simply more vulnerable to FPS-related failures. With the constant lasing of the Hellfire system, the user may not be aware of a noncritical failure. Come to think of it, I often have to wait several seconds before the Hellfire laser designation icon appears. Perhaps Hellfire designations can be delayed by lower FPS, resulting in a noncritical failure. With Kh-29s, the laser target never appears at all.

So those are my thoughts. I'll look at my RPT and play around with it some more later.

Updated by maturin almost 6 years ago

And now I am even more confused! As I just told you, I experienced issues on Utes.

But I just lased dozens and dozens of targets on Chernarus and it worked flawlessly.
I was able to lase water, ground, buildings. Even areas beyond view distance and as close as 300m away!

I turned my view distance up to 1000m and unplugged my power cable, which sent FPS into single digits. Despite this, I had only one failure (false minimum range reading) and a handful of short delays.

This leads me to ask whether there could be something wrong with Utes. Is the grid system the same?

RPT attached

Updated by maturin almost 6 years ago

Eureka! Ignore that Utes hypothesis, it was a stupid idea. I finally managed to get a conclusive test.

Ticket here: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/22340

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