Feature #18164

RWR 'radar' implementation

Added by Sickboy almost 4 years ago. Updated almost 4 years ago.

Status:Closed Start date:03/10/2011
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:Xeno % Done:

100%

Category:UI
Target version:1.10
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

We disabled radar on vehicles that don't have it in real life, but most of those vehicles do have RWR in reallife.
This seems not work (well) in OA... Perhaps time we add our own.


Related issues

related to A.C.E. for OA - Feature #15039: System damage (Components) for fixed wing aircraft New 11/10/2010

History

Updated by rexehuk almost 4 years ago

Experienced this on A10 last night... not sure WHY it has been disabled, perhaps people should research before assuming things?

A10-A has a RWR implemented, disabling the visual aid has made the aircraft even more arcadelike to fly, you get warning tones, but no directional information which makes it absolutely useless for countermeasure dispersal.

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

Perhaps you should apply the research argument to yourself as well?

In OA, RWR and Radar cannot be seperately managed - so radar is disabled because the vehicles don't have them. But that also disables RWR, hence this ticket - to whip up a custom RWR for those vehicles.

Updated by VKing almost 4 years ago

Would you rather have a completely perfect, unjammable, reliable, 360 degree, magical radar on a plane that shouldn't have a radar to begin with?

Leaving it on is more broken than having to guess a number between one and eight when you hear the alarm.

Updated by Trips almost 4 years ago

Is this worth it? Almost every missile in the game is IR-seeking and therefore wouldn't show up on RWR anyway. The only exceptions are
  1. Tunguska's 9M311. This uses radio for the missile's SACLOS guidance. A launch could theoretically be detected up but I doubt the missile could be tracked.
  2. R-27 which comes in SARH, ARH and IR variants so you could just say it's the IR version.

In my opinion this should be looked at the other way; you should try to make a more realistic radar (e.g. limited FOV, B-Scope display) for aircraft whilst disabling the vanilla RWR/radar for everything.

At a tangent, if you could change which objects appear on the vanilla RWR/radar then changed it so only emitters showed up then that would be a big step and stopgap.

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

  • Target version changed from 395 to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

I am willing to consider contributing to this .. Question: would it be possible to have a module in the editor that re-enables the removed radar? This would be a great feature to me until an ACE RWR is developed properly.

What do you guys think about it?

Thanks,
- Reezo

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

sr5tactical wrote:

I am willing to consider contributing to this .. Question: would it be possible to have a module in the editor that re-enables the removed radar? This would be a great feature to me until an ACE RWR is developed properly.

What do you guys think about it?

Thanks,

Thanks for the offer, would be interested in contributions!
A module im afraid will not be possible because the values are determined in config, which isn't modifyable at runtime.
When scripted solutions are introduced - these can be changed / enabled/disabled at runtime.

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

I get it. Thanks for the reply. Having double configs is, I believe, a no-go so I won't even ask for it :)

I've been reading about the RWR (I am not an air support kind of player so bear with me if I lack information and try to learn as much to cover this gaps, when possible):
[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_warning_receiver]]

If I get it correctly, the Vanilla radar system is done correctly in terms of shape and detection capabilities BUT it is able to detect passive missiles as well, which in reality it shouldn't. Do I stand correct on this one?

Thanks for clearing it up :)

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

I think the second problem is 360 degrees radar, and not just the angle that RWR normally operates in.
Mando seems to have an excellent implementation of RWR btw.

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Sickboy wrote:

I think the second problem is 360 degrees radar, and not just the angle that RWR normally operates in.
Mando seems to have an excellent implementation of RWR btw.

Mando Missile has an excellent one, I agree. We at SR5 Tactical have tested ACE+MMA for around two weeks but the guys in Air Support asked me to remove it and the verdict was "not compatible" with ACE. I am not saying the mod is bugged: it is another incredible achievement in the community, but it does not work with ACE as one would expect, at least in MP environments (in local it does its job, from what I've seen).

I am guessing my instincts tell me an ACE-RWR is needed. I am willing to be assembled in a team. Lone-wolf development..I think it would be scary :)

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Ok we are moving to create a first MFD script that is able to detect active scanning radar sources.

So far the script is able to identify objects and report their position, side, distance and type.

Here begins the mind-boggling adventure of creating a dialog to open the MFD and report the object position in relation to the RWR center. I will need math help for this (and more) :) where is the best place to ask for it? I don't want to spam in wrong places :)

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Update: I've managed to get the relative angle between the RWR facing direction and the target.

If anyone has RWR sounds or is able to point me to the right direction please post :)

I will never make it to the 1.10 Stable release but I would love to, which means I'll make it. There is no trying, just doing. Lol.

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Update: Good and consistent progress. I'd say you do have a contributor, indeed.

I just need to learn how to create dynamic dialogs/screens that change position according to gathered local variables. This is what I need to place the "target icons" for detected radar sources on the RWR dialog screen.

Before you ask, no (c) material was used and nothing from "other modders" was used as well in terms of graphics, sounds and code.

Updated by Trips almost 4 years ago

I have every RWR sound I think you could need. They come unpackaged with a FreeFalcon install. Let me know what you want and i'll upload an archive of them in .wav.

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to In progress
  • Priority changed from Low to Normal
  • Target version changed from Planned (Needs Contributors) to 395
  • % Done changed from 0 to 20

Great news Reezo!

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Thanks guys!

@Trips you can send them to my email which is info(at)sr5tactical.net, thanks man! I might ask you for some info about "this and that" sound because I won't be able to know when to trigger what :) anyway..if you want to make me a simple .txt describing when each .wav happens in real life, that'd be great!

UPDATE:
All variables check so I am moving to the dialog display. I can't believe I am up to this point.
A very important question is: can dialogs/screens change in position dynamically or are they bound to the X,Y in the description.ext? I need to move the "TARGET" icon dynamically according to the relative position of the detected radar in the RWR display..but I think this cannot be done in ArmA 2.

I fear I will need to create some dummy positions that the script will call depending on distance and angle of the target. It is not hard, it will be long but not hard.

That is .. if I can't change screen/dialog positions dynamically.

Updated by Nou almost 4 years ago

sr5tactical wrote:

Thanks guys!

@Trips you can send them to my email which is info(at)sr5tactical.net, thanks man! I might ask you for some info about "this and that" sound because I won't be able to know when to trigger what :) anyway..if you want to make me a simple .txt describing when each .wav happens in real life, that'd be great!

UPDATE:
All variables check so I am moving to the dialog display. I can't believe I am up to this point.
A very important question is: can dialogs/screens change in position dynamically or are they bound to the X,Y in the description.ext? I need to move the "TARGET" icon dynamically according to the relative position of the detected radar in the RWR display..but I think this cannot be done in ArmA 2.

I fear I will need to create some dummy positions that the script will call depending on distance and angle of the target. It is not hard, it will be long but not hard.

That is .. if I can't change screen/dialog positions dynamically.

Yes: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ctrlSetPosition

See: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Category:Command_Group:_GUI_Control

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Excellent, I prepared 16 available controls for the moment (A10 RWR seems to have a max number of targets = 16) and I will give their position from the script using that command..let's see..

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Update: I am dealing with controls and displays, this is really the hardest part for my current skills. At least I have all the required data to construct a scale between real in-game positions and RWR display.

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Problem:
I have to use controls, not dialogs, to be able to move them around dynamically. But, controls usually stop the player handling and create a mouse cursor for interaction.

How do I prevent controls to stop player movement?

Thanks in advance, development is going fine but I need help here and there that's why I am asking ;)

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

Perhaps could be useful if you could come online @ wave; https://wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+uKsSjHFzY

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Sickboy wrote:

Perhaps could be useful if you could come online @ wave; https://wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+uKsSjHFzY

Done, just signed in :)

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago


Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

It's moving! It's moving! It's working!

yuppi.

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

  • Category set to UI
  • % Done changed from 20 to 40

(rock)

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago


Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

Initial testing video sneek peek
[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSNGybGAyr4]]
Progress is now 80%
Private beta testing and release to the ACE team is scheduled for later today.

Updated by M1n1d0u almost 4 years ago

i have 1 question what is the number on it ? i see 22
a big improvement of the rwr radar

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

M1n1d0u wrote:

i have 1 question what is the number on it ? i see 22
a big improvement of the rwr radar

It is a 23, which represent a Shilka. S6 represent a Tunguska and the ^ symbol represent a generic Air radar..can be a chopper or a jet.

The half moon symbol means new threat. It stays there for around 10 seconds, then disappears.

In a couple hours from now I will have a radio-visibility check to block threats when they are covered by mountains etc.
And then it will be private beta testing :)

Updated by M1n1d0u almost 4 years ago

oh oki so you change the A with the point by the number ? because i read your legend

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

M1n1d0u wrote:

oh oki so you change the A with the point by the number ? because i read your legend

Yes thanks to Nou and zGuba I got some info on the right symbols to use :)

Updated by M1n1d0u almost 4 years ago

oh oki that's really good !

Updated by Sickboy almost 4 years ago

  • % Done changed from 40 to 80

Updated by Reezo almost 4 years ago

I say we only need some testing time now. The script is done ;)
http://www.pastie.org/private/a1rnxqreazb8u9jukxzpw

Updated by wore almost 4 years ago

Sickboy,also what about a laser irradiation detector on tanks and APC's?Mb it deserves an another ticket,but in case of Real Virtuality engine it's the same.Also Apache's and Kamov's warnings detectors detect laser irradiation too.

Updated by UGLY58 almost 4 years ago

Don`t get to obsessed with the range to target on this one and bearing should be poor as well. RWR are warners not intelligence gathers and so lack accuracy particularly in range.

Now if someone can build the modes into the radars - Search, Acquisition,Track,Guide etc that would be very cool but that I guess is driven from the other end and I have yet to see that in any Radar units in Arma.

Radars should be detectable in search mode on the RWR before they detect you thats what the W is for.....Radar Propagation Theory anyone :)

Updated by Trips almost 4 years ago

Some RWRs don't really show pure range at all, they show whether you're in the emitter's WEZ and WEZs are different for different aircraft/SAMs so one emitter could be on the outer circle and another on the inner when both are at the same real range.

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

  • Target version changed from 395 to 1.11

Updated by Megagoth1702 almost 4 years ago

Does radar disabling also disable it properly, like, its not working at all? Or is it just hiding the radar?

On a mission of mine om Zargabad there are a LOT of vehicles out in the desert (not in town), about ... 20-30. A10 FPS go broke, even on extreme low quality settings.

The only thing that helps is lowering the enemy vehicle amount.

So I guess radar + 20-30 vehicles = LOW FPS because of scripts running like crazy.

So if radar is disabled, I should get better FPS?

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

  • Status changed from In progress to Closed
  • Target version changed from 1.11 to 1.10
  • % Done changed from 80 to 100

Available in the about to be released ACE 1.10 RC 3.

Updated by rocko almost 4 years ago

  • Assignee changed from Sickboy to Xeno

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