Feature #16476

Marksmanship ProofOfConcept (Breathing/SightAlignment Game Mechanic)

Added by Rg about 6 years ago. Updated about 4 years ago.

Status:New Start date:01/06/2011
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:


Target version:Arma 3
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:


Create a Breathing/Alignment cycle to simulate more realistic engagements to improve gameplay.

One thing missing from more realistic engagements is the lack of need to breath & align your sights. All you have to do is press your optic key and you instantly have near perfect stabilization (not completely due to aimPrecision) & sight alignment.

Add a weapon dispersion EH to a unit by default and by the press of an assigned key, you start a cycle to temporarily disable the dispersion while giving the player the necessary visual feedback.

Rather then using a small visual cue (such as a color change icon similar to the ACE_magcheck icon), I stumbled upon the "addCamShake" command. The subtle use of this command gives the player the visual feedback needed with his weapon sights. While this command does not actually sway your weapon, it does sway your head camera which makes your weapon sights unalign from your perspective (the effect is the same/similar to the old "crouch misalign bug"). While not a perfect solution, I think it works decently.

This PoC implementation is very simple and crude, but I'm posting this in hopes that something along these lines might be developed for ACE (ace_sys_marksmanship?). :D
Feel free improve/rewrite or do whatever you want with this PoC.

Don't use ACE weapons (dispersion EH doesn't work). Use default weapons or just disable ACE when testing.

Current limitations
I could NOT get the..

1) CamShake effect to always be on when you bring up your sights to then disable temporarily by pressing the "H" key (can't disrupt CamShake when it's duration setting has not completed?).
2) Key press to be a HOLD (temporary function). Currently you just tap it once to start the cycle (don't hold it down, because it will not function correctly).
3) Breathing/Alignment cycle to ONLY work when having your sights up (not when using crosshair).
4) Breathing/Alignment cycle to CANCEL when you move (change animation) during the cycle.
5) Transition from offset to center to be perfectly smooth. While there is a slight transition built in to the command, there is no way of adjusting it.

Example - Ingame usage (A hint message is in the test mission for explanation)
Weapon dispersion always ON by default.
- Find target @ XXXm.
- Stop moving.
- PRESS "Optic" Key to bring up your sights.
- PRESS "Marksmanship" key (H).
- Your view sways slightly for ~3 seconds to give you visual feedback of aligning the sights.
- Your view then stabilizes and the weapon dispersion is removed. You are now ready to fire accurately.
- If you don't eliminate your target in the ~3 seconds you have of stabilization, you see your view do a small quick shake, warning you that the cycle is finished, so you need to start the cycle again.
- PRESS "Marksmanship" key (H) to start the cycle again.

To edit..

Cycle timings ("keyspressed_dispersion.sqf").
You need to match the middle number of the "camShake" array with the "sleep" time below it.
- camShake [1,X,1];
- sleep X;

Dispersion amount ("dispersion_on.sqf")
Change MaxDeviation amount (Higher means more dispersion)
- _MaxDeviation = X;

Keyboard Key ("keyspressed.sqf")
Change "case X" to the key you want (http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ListOfKeyCodes).
- case X

_Marksmanship_ProofOfConcept.rar (3.7 kB) Rg, 01/06/2011 06:52


Updated by Trips about 6 years ago

Does the player have any input during the 3 second sway? Does the sight picture have any relation to the actual point of aim? A sight-misalignment feature could be cool but waiting an arbitrary 3 seconds with no input would be very frustrating.

Updated by Xeno about 6 years ago

  • Target version set to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Updated by tolko_download about 6 years ago

Trips wrote:

Does the player have any input during the 3 second sway? Does the sight picture have any relation to the actual point of aim? A sight-misalignment feature could be cool but waiting an arbitrary 3 seconds with no input would be very frustrating.

Agreed, it's bad idea. Also all soldiers must have SAME effects (dispersion / heartbeating / etc). I guess that idea can kill arma sniping, because bugged engine causes lags / freezes and unsmooth hostile movement. I'm talking about MP PvP games only. There is no much time to aim at your target like IRL and sometime you need to shoot in moving targets.

Don't want new bugs with controls.

Updated by tolko_download about 6 years ago

Just tested. Hero-protagonist cant hit targets at 200m with M4A3 without "marksmanship" button. Also he breaths after pressing H and whatis he doing all other time? BIS breathing is a good enough.

And why did you change GUN dispersion??? Gun dispersion (also "native gun dispersion") is not equal "human factor"!!! Your scripts changes gun dispersion while you're aiming before pressing "H".

I hope ACE dev team never implement that feature in ACE mod :)

Updated by Rg about 6 years ago

This is merely a proof of concept, not a finalized system. I posted this in hopes for discussion and possible implementation of something/anything in regards to breathing/alignment which is lacking from this game. This is the best idea I could come up with, but my knowledge is limited.

If I understand you correctly, yes to both. Player input is not/should not be limited. You can still move where ever you want, but should the player cycle reset if you are not stopped? I would say yes, but that is not present in the test mission.

"Current limitations - I could NOT get the.. 1) CamShake effect to always be on when you bring up your sights to then disable temporarily by pressing the "H" key (can't disrupt CamShake when it's duration setting has not completed?)."
If I could get the breathing/sway there all the time, I would.

The amount of dispersion used in the test mission was just to make it obvious for the tester (If you read the bottom of the post, you can mess around with the amount of dispersion and also the cycle timings). If a dispersion on/off system was used, the amount needs to be thoroughly tested and adjusted for best balance between realism and gameplay.

Updated by rye about 6 years ago

On adding to this feature it would be nice to hear inhaling sounds as the player holds their breath. Maybe a slower heart beart sound as you slow your heart beat. I dunno, adds to the atmosphere. :)

You already have breathing sounds for stamina.

Updated by tolko_download about 6 years ago

1. Already you have BIS sway
2. Already you have "Hold Breath" button
3. You can shoot moving targets like IRL, here - you can't
4. Gun ALWAYS has dispersion. If your arms like arms of the Terminator, you will also have gun dispersion but not human factor.
5. Here you can't shoot with any other gun withoutn Marksmanship button at ranges over 50-100 m Yes, you can adjust sway level but why? You ALREADY have sway caused by human factor (muscles / breath / heart). You dont need addition sway.

I mean you have targets that have HUMAN's behaviour and they don't wait your preparing to shot. With this system you act like novice shooter - you need a lot of time to make one shoot. It's not realistic. IRL you spend a lot of time to make CALCULATIONS before shoot: wind at two points / pressure / temperature / dew-point / humidity / range / difference of heights / derivation. After all parameters are calculated you can shoot and it occurs quickly: has seen - has killed.

So, if you play versus bots only at "Regular" and with
_unit setBehaviour "CARELESS";
_unit allowFleeing 0;
_unit disableAI "TARGET";
_unit setCombatMode "BLUE";

it is applicable)) but not vs humans (especially considering a poor-quality network code of the game engine)

I think BIS Hold Breath + ACE Weapon Deployment is good enough.

Updated by stubs about 6 years ago

Perhaps a set of very slight sight misalignment movements (without the extra dispersion) before using "BIS hold breath" could be used. Then when you hit and hold the right mouse button (hold breath) your sights align.

This could be added as a module so it doesn't affect all players. For one I'm for this, but I could see how a lot of players would be against.

Edit: Weapon rest could also posibly align your sights and have a longer "hold breath" period, not just a few seconds.

Thanks, Stubs.

Updated by Militantsausage almost 6 years ago

the concept sounds alright, personally though all that would be needed to make shooting a little harder is a bit more sway before holding your breath, but not much, and perhaps slight camshake for 1.5 seconds while bringing up your sights.

I dont think a "marksmanship" button is needed, and also definetly no extra dispersion is needed, I already have enough problems with dispersion as it is. Infact it would be cool to remove almost all dispersion for players (keep accurate statistics on dipserion though), yet make it harder to line up your sights and hold breath etc. Therefore the gun would be very accurate but your actual accuracy is almost entirely dependant on you, which would make marksmanship training far more important, infact you might see certain clans actually practicing techniques on lining up shots, and you also might see clans running shooting range missions on their servers jst to make sure everyone is shooting right.

Updated by Militantsausage almost 6 years ago

well sorry to bump but has anyone played Americas Army 3? An idea from that is to maybe not have the sights line up in the middle as much, which would make lining up shots take a little longer at further ranges but at close range a shot to the chest would still be fairly quick.

Updated by Trips almost 6 years ago

I think that's the idea of the camshake, it introduces sight misalignment.

Updated by Militantsausage almost 6 years ago

Well im not talking about what you think, I was talking about when you pull up the sights they are zeroed quickly but ther are not centered at the exact middle of the screen.

Updated by Trips almost 6 years ago

I've looked up AA3 videos and I see what you mean now. I guess realistic marksmanship would model both, 'translational' misalignment (pointing your weapon off target) and 'rotational' misalignment (sight picture)

Updated by rocko almost 6 years ago

  • Tracker changed from Feature to Task

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

  • Tracker changed from Task to Feature

Updated by rocko over 5 years ago

  • Target version changed from Planned (Needs Contributors) to Arma 3

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