Feature #16320

Anti Personnel Mine 'weakening' Possibility

Added by DaveP over 4 years ago. Updated over 4 years ago.

Status:Closed Start date:12/30/2010
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:

100%

Category:-
Target version:1.8
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

Hey there,

I've had a look at the editor placeable mines added fairly recently to ACE and consider them a pretty cool addition to the game (specifically the M16a1). Unfortunately the nature of mines in multiplayer mission editing rules them out of the equation. They offer a good shock value, but if you're the unlucky sod that steps on it it's a one shot insta kill, which is more frustrating than fun.

An option to remedy this could be to make a 'weakened' mine or modifying module that, rather than outright killing the unit involved will instead give them serious damage/something to the effect of ACE wounding unconcious. This would make mines a fearsome battlefield weapon that could also serve as a rather useful 'no-fuss' stand in for IED's and other booby traps.

While one can argue the realism remit of weakening such weapons, it always has to be remembered that we're playing a computer game for fun, and so insta kills and similar actions will often rule out the use of that element for the majority of mission editors.

History

Updated by Sonsalt over 4 years ago

AP mines should rather incapacitate than kill, dependent on the type of mine.

Updated by Trips over 4 years ago

I think the solution is scripting or using 'poor man's revive', not new objects.

Updated by DaveP over 4 years ago

Trips wrote:

I think the solution is scripting or using 'poor man's revive', not new objects.

One could offer the same about why editor placed mines were added in the first place

That said, I'd be more hopeful of either the addition of a new true AP mine that was designed to incapacitate(eg M14), as I can understand that having multiple versions of the same object in the editor looks a bit mess

Updated by Trips over 4 years ago

DaveP wrote:

Trips wrote:

I think the solution is scripting or using 'poor man's revive', not new objects.

One could offer the same about why editor placed mines were added in the first place

Not sure I follow

DaveP wrote:

That said, I'd be more hopeful of either the addition of a new true AP mine that was designed to incapacitate(eg M14), as I can understand that having multiple versions of the same object in the editor looks a bit mess

Ah, if you want some new mines in the game i'm all for it. I don't like the idea of regular & nerf versions of objects.

Updated by Evil_Echo over 4 years ago

If a weapon IRL will insta-kill, then so should the ACE version.

Updated by Xeno over 4 years ago

  • Target version set to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Updated by Daniel over 4 years ago

I'd very much like to see some incapacitating AP mines in ACE2. Insta-kill ones are fairly used in MP unless used as a marked mine field (IMO).

Updated by DaveP over 4 years ago

What's needed with regards to Contributors to get this to happen?

Updated by Sonsalt over 4 years ago

-6 a positive number ;)

Updated by DaveP over 4 years ago

From reading, it's fairly obvious that the tone of conversation has switched from Modifying existing items to adding new ones (to the effect of less lethal anti personnel minds)

So aside from smarmy comments I'd like to know what needs to be contributed to get this added, as I think it's something I'd be willing to work on for what it offers

Updated by Nou over 4 years ago

Find some real life mines that are solely designed to incapacitate and not kill/horribly maim?

ACE doesn't invent stuff.

Updated by rye over 4 years ago

Oh there are mines that do try to incapacitate only, most are made to kill though - only very few are made to maim. I think what Dave is trying to say is to create maiming mines not to decrease the damage in actual made-to-kill mines, that wouldn't be right.

It is all hell for a patrol, having to carry any injured person(s) out of the battlefield and while navigating a minefield, overall it's more effective to the patrol than a death, all that energy and morale loss.

Examples:
The American Pineapple mine - made to cause trauma to the lower limbs, made to maim.
PMR 2A Stake mine - trip wire mine, fragmentates in a 360 degree arc.
M14 AP - the toe popper.
M16 Bouncing Betty - jumps up and spreads out fragments.
OZM4 - Russian version of the bouncing betty.
Valmara 69 - jumps up in the air and sends fragments everywhere, made to maim but can kill.
Claymore - made to maim/kill but spreads out that damage using ball bearings.

"Typically, anti-personnel blast mines are pressure activated i.e. they are triggered when the victim steps on it. Their primary purpose is to blow the victim's foot or leg off, disabling them. Injuring, rather than killing, the victim is viewed as preferable in order to increase the logistical (evacuation, medical) burden on the opposing force."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-personnel_mine#Blast_mines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landmines#Fragmentation_and_stake_mines

That's why they're nicknamed 'Toe poppers'. ;)

Updated by VKing over 4 years ago

Those and all other mines will kill you if you step on it, whether from shock, blunt force or ripping your organs out.

Implementing mines to purposefully not kill is just silly, the ACE wounds system takes care of the rest for people unlucky enough to be outside the kill radius.

Updated by rye over 4 years ago

No they won't, some AP mines just take out the foot and cause trauma to the lower limbs.
Check what the Russian PMN does to a boot:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46570635/Body-Armor-for-Mines

Won't kill but you won't have a foot, without treatment you will bleed to death. In that article it says it can break a foot but you wouldn't lose it (thanks to the Kevlar boot). Only around 100g of RDX/TNT.

The purpose is burdening a patrol with injured members, not outright killing a patrol member so the patrol can easily recover and escape. They are easier to track if bleeding too. But meh, up to ACE. Sure more research into wound patterns or applications of certain mines would give you a lot more information.

Updated by Iron_Wardog over 4 years ago

Not that i particularly care but according to the field manual (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/20-32/appa.html):

"The M14 is not designed to kill but to penetrate a boot or a foot."

Updated by rocko over 4 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Closed
  • Target version changed from Planned (Needs Contributors) to 1.8
  • % Done changed from 0 to 100

The explosion has been adjusted for 452 a bit.

Updated by rye over 4 years ago

Anti-tank mines should do the damage they are meant to... do they work on other vehicles, light-skinned etc?
Ever thought of adding improvised mines and pressure plates for the Insurgents?

They use wooden boxes with two saws with the det cord attached - pressure goes on top, connects both saws which creates a circuit, det cord sends the message to the detonator and kaboom.

Improvised rockets they use 108mm rockets. I have a picture of them if you ever wanted to think about making them.

Also available in: Atom PDF