Feature #16063

AGM-114M Hellfire II & AGM-114N Hellfire II

Added by mr.g-c about 4 years ago. Updated about 2 years ago.

Status:Rejected Start date:12/19/2010
Priority:Low Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:

0%

Category:-
Target version:-
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

I'd like to see the two "new" variants of Laser-guided Hellfire 2 Missles with "Blast Fragmentation/Incendiary" and "Thermobaric" warheads for AH64 and Cobra. They are in use since Afghanistan/Iraq war.
And since ACE2 added proper simulation for those Round types and their capabilities (incendiary/thermobaric/blast-fragmentation) they would make sense and add a lot of fun.

Data:

AGM-114M:
    * Target: Bunkers, light vehicles, urban (soft) targets and caves
    * Range: 8,000 m (8,749 yd)
    * Guidance:
          o Semi-active laser homing
    * Warhead: Blast fragmentation/incendiary
    * Weight: 48.2 kg (106 lb)
    * Length: 163 cm (64 in)

AGM-114N:
    * Target: Enclosures, ships, urban targets, air defense units
    * Range: 8,000 m (8,749 yd)
    * Guidance:
          o Semi-active laser homing
    * Warhead: Metal augmented charge (MAC) (Thermobaric)
    * Weight: 48 kg (105 lb)
    * Length: 163 cm (64 in)


Related issues

duplicated by A.C.E. for OA - Feature #30019: Hellfire missile AGM-114N (Thermobaric) Duplicate 04/02/2012
duplicated by A.C.E. for OA - Feature #35671: AGM-114M, The Apache's camera and the M230 Chain gun. Duplicate 07/02/2012

History

Updated by Militantsausage about 4 years ago

Seems to make sense, although the Apache will now have to be banned by the geneva convention ;)

Updated by Evil_Echo about 4 years ago

Geneva Convention is about prisoners of war.

Hague Convention is about what weapons are allowed.

Give that a MAC charge is meant to reduce collateral damage to nearby civilians, hardly seems in violation of those accords.

Updated by RobertHammer about 4 years ago

The Thermobaric rounds aren't they banned to use for all NATO and US? So far only Russian army started to using Thermobaric missiles etc

Updated by Lazyman about 4 years ago

RobertHammer wrote:

The Thermobaric rounds aren't they banned to use for all NATO and US? So far only Russian army started to using Thermobaric missiles etc

Well, the USMC's new SMAW "Novel Explosive" round is just a thermobaric round with a slightly different name.
I think thermobaric rounds might be regulated like all other incediary weapons, as in you are not allowed to use them on civilians and in civilian-populated areas.

Updated by Xeno about 4 years ago

  • Target version set to Planned (Needs Contributors)

Updated by zGuba about 4 years ago

RobertHammer wrote:

The Thermobaric rounds aren't they banned to use for all NATO and US? So far only Russian army started to using Thermobaric missiles etc

Polish Army uses thermobaric and cluster warheads as well. Not without reason.

Updated by Militantsausage about 4 years ago

Well, evil_echo my point was that these hellfires would leave no prisoners of war.

Updated by Sickboy about 4 years ago

  • Priority changed from Normal to Low

Updated by rocko about 4 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Rejected
  • Target version deleted (Planned (Needs Contributors))

Updated by Huggy almost 3 years ago

Ok revive attempt on this one:

I think it is useful out of several reasons:

1. It would increase usability of the Apache weapon system
2. Soft targets could be engaged much more efficient
3. Warheads are available already in ACE, atleast similar ones (Mk 80 NE example)

Updated by rocko almost 3 years ago

Huggy wrote:

Ok revive attempt on this one:

I think it is useful out of several reasons:

1. It would increase usability of the Apache weapon system
2. Soft targets could be engaged much more efficient
3. Warheads are available already in ACE, atleast similar ones (Mk 80 NE example)

There would be no possibility in ACE currently to load these missiles. The EASA does not support helicopters, IIRC.

#1 is unclear to me
#2 is obvious

Updated by Huggy almost 3 years ago

Ok referring to reason #1:

Atm the Apache has anti-tank Hellfire rockets on board, FFAR´s and the chain gun.
Especially against soft targets which are either mobile (technicals etc.) or static positions (D30,..... + bunkers) there is no weapon available yet which would enable to Apache to successfully engage them out of a reasonable distance towards target.

Chain gun becomes ineffective at ranges beyond 1500 meters due to shell spread, which is potentially causing collateral damage.
The present Hellfire rocket variants prove to be not reliable on static targets due to little (realistic) splash damage although they hit the target precisely.
Fast moving technicals can be tricky due to guidance delay which will in some occasions lead to a close hit without effect on target (here the target has to be hit precisely which is not a big issue with a clumsy tank), a warhead with more splash damage would increase the profitability of a successful engagement.
FFAR´s have no stand-off capabilities and although their effect on target is good the likely cause potential collateral damage since they are fired most of the times in salvos.

Before someone is screaming, i am assuming a realistic scenario where the enemy has sophisticated AA capabilities

That´s why i think such a warhead variant would be useful and enrich the game.

Too bad, no chance to create a separate variant to be placeable in the editor?

Updated by Huggy almost 3 years ago

Is this ticket remaining on closed/rejected????

Updated by cyrilator almost 3 years ago

rocko wrote:

There would be no possibility in ACE currently to load these missiles. The EASA does not support helicopters, IIRC.

if there is no possibility to load these missile from EASA, a simple solution would by to simply add dedicated AH64D and AH1 versions equipped with AGM114 N (or M) in the air vehicles lists

Updated by ScarecrowisNOTamused. almost 3 years ago

Not exactly the best option but add weapon & magazine would work too wouldn't it?

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