Feature #15842

AT4/RPG7/SMAW inflict too much damage on some armored vehicles

Added by wore over 4 years ago. Updated over 2 years ago.

Status:Assigned Start date:12/10/2010
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:

0%

Category:Vehicles
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version:Please select... First affected ArmA II version:
Reproduced by another DH user:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using some Mods:No BIForumURL:
I am using: NGUrl:
Reproducible for you:No WIKIurl:
Related to content of DLC:

Description

"Lighter" AT weapons inflict unrealistic damage on heavy armored vehicles.

Information about armour penetration of some AT launchers(in mm of RHAE):

AT4 ~400 RPG18 ~300
SMAW ~600 MAAWS ~400(FFV551) 500(FFV751)
RPG7 330(PG7V) 500(PG7VL) 600-700(PG7VR)

Information about armour protection of some tanks/APCs(in mm of RHAE,vs KE rounds):

M1A1HC/M1A1HA+/M1A2 Turret: 880-900,Glacis:560-590,Lower front hull:580-650
M1A2 SEP Turret: 940-960,Glacis:560-590,Lower front hull:580-650
T-72A "Dolly Parton" M1981/3 Turret: 280-380,Glacis: 400,Lower front hull: 250
T-90A Turret: 800-830,Glacis: 670-710,Lower front hull: 240
M2A2 Bradley Glacis: 130,Front turret: 100-110.

In addition,damage of HEAT round isn't destroying entire vehicle,only hurt and kill a crew,destroying electronics,etc.

Suggestions:

Set more realistic values of the armour(an example: 1 PG7VL-M1A2 gun 20% damaged,turret-15%;1PG7VR-40%/20%), but increase crew injuries per hit.

1) In case of BMPs/Bradleys etc:
1st hit - target part of vehicle are damaged (more or 2) less, depends of vehicle armor),
2nd hit - fully destroyed


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #3503: Armor Damage model improvements Assigned 08/08/2009
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #15293: The AI tank gunner should automatically switch to and use... Assigned 11/20/2010 10/28/2011

History

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

  • Subject changed from Improve armour protection and damage model of armored wehicles to Improve armour protection and damage model of armored vehicles
  • Status changed from New to Assigned

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

  • Due date set to 12/24/2010
  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback

So what do you particularly not like right now?

Does armor get destroyed to easily or too hard?

Updated by wore over 4 years ago

I suppose,armor protection is too weak from AT launchers(excepr javelin/metis),especially on tanks.
Armor protection of all armored vehicles from KE rounds also need to be increased by 15-20%.I've provide links,in which you can see,that,an example,only 2-3 PG7VR rounds can penetrate front armor of M1A2 SEP.But i suppose,crew in real tanks get a bit more damage then now in Arma 2

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

Your ticket is a bit too generic...and for crew injury we have a ticket #15289.

Also, if you think it's too weak - sometimes the tanks survive hits from Javelin or TOW missiles, which are impossible in reality, judging from watching some videos on YouTube, where e.g. a TOW explodes like 1-2 m ABOVE a T-72 and the tanks turret gets removed and the rest totally destroyed too. In the game sometimes tanks survive such missile hits "badly damaged" but in once piece.

So I would be careful what you wish for in general. Do you agree that you probably should evaluate each case separately and make individual tickets on objects where you really see an issue/important improvement?

Updated by wore over 4 years ago

If we have an another ticket about crew injury,remove this point from my ticket.About missiles:Arma 2 doesn't imitate pressure-thermal effect of AT weapons,an example,i know.But I think if the armor of Arma 2 armored vehicles will be improved,AT missiles damage(like AT-5/9/10/11,Vikhr(with a bit lover maneuverability),Metis,Javelin,TOW,Maverick,etc.) must be improved accordingly,i've said about armor protection vs AT4,SMAW,RPG's,MAAWS only,just forgot to clarify it in the ticket,my bad)

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

  • Assignee set to Fireball

I will try to clarify and specify your ticket description according to your feedback as soon I got time.

Complex tickets usually won't get us anywhere.

Updated by wore over 4 years ago

Thank you
P.S.:
Fireball wrote:

where e.g. a TOW explodes like 1-2 m ABOVE a T-72 and the tanks turret gets removed and the rest totally destroyed too.

Fireball,it's not rare,it's normal,recommended tactic to use AT missiles,because the top armor of tank turret is the most weak;)Also,i've forgot to clarify,real SPG-9 makes same damage,as in ArmA 2(based on info from Afganistan and Chechen conflict veterans from Russia,which are had the opportunity to see T-72 squads attacked by SPG-9.Crews aren't survived most of time)

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

  • Category set to Gameplay

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

  • Subject changed from Improve armour protection and damage model of armored vehicles to AT4/RPG7/SMAW should inflict more (crew) damage on some armored vehicles
  • Due date deleted (12/24/2010)
  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned
  • Assignee deleted (Fireball)
  • CPU deleted (irrelevant)

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

  • Subject changed from AT4/RPG7/SMAW should inflict more (crew) damage on some armored vehicles to AT4/RPG7/SMAW inflict too much damage on some armored vehicles

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

I had to read the comments again to see the correct idea :-P

Updated by wore about 4 years ago

)))thank you for your work.Also do not forget RPG-18 and MAAWS)
Note:in case of AT missiles we should use RHAE parameter vs CE rounds,not vs KE
http://collinsj.tripod.com/protect.htm

Updated by kotov almost 4 years ago

problem much more complex than described here.
I still not understand.
How BIS want to see arma2 - realistic view or other way ?
If you talking about real combat you don't need to fully destroy BMP or tank to make it useless on battle field.
2 or 3 rpgs rockets never blows it like in game now.Crew will be injured or killed ,vehicle can start burning.It will blow up either from powerful rocket or from contunue smoking with ammo inside.

If we are talking about smaw:
Effective range is 250m(500m maximum) - in game is abit different and posibility to carry launcher + 6 rockets look a bit strange :)

Updated by Fireball almost 4 years ago

Things are not too pressing here, I guess.

Realism is secondary to feasability (can it be done with the engine without eating too much work for little effect?) and also playability (does it fit the game?).

Then again, engine fixes are more easily done than config tweaks, but that's some BIS internal stuff, responsibility-related.

It's like "don't touch config/model unless hell breaks loose", that's why often seemingly trivial stuff is not fixed, not to speak of new features (i.e. existing models/config being modified/improved) - it's almost only done with DLC or expansions, if even.

Updated by maturin almost 4 years ago

Penetration-based armor system is feasible, performance-friendly and playable with ACE 2 mod. And they have to work with scripting and pre-existing flawed model hitboxes.

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

  • Category changed from Gameplay to Vehicles

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