Feature #14087

Recoil on M4 / M16 / Scar-L family

Added by logan9773 over 4 years ago. Updated about 4 years ago.

Status:Closed Start date:09/29/2010
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:q1184 % Done:

0%

Category:Config
Target version:-
Component: Affected Version:
Close Reason:

Description

Continuing the discussion from http://dev-heaven.net/issues/12016 about recoil being too high on the M16/M4/Scar-L family.

Hoping for some people with a lot of military and shooting experience to try and correct the recoil values for the M16 / M4 / Scar-L family.


Related issues

related to A.C.E. for OA - Bug #12016: Please tighten up the dispersion on.. well... everything. Rejected 07/15/2010

History

Updated by q1184 over 4 years ago

  • Category set to Config
  • Status changed from New to Feedback
  • Assignee set to q1184

On dragging the weapon down manually in unsupported positions

Yes it feels a bit unnatural, however this is the only way to make the player participate in re-aiming after a shot with the present up-down recoil model. If it were in my power, I'd make the weapon end up within a cone around the initial direction.
You'll notice however that if you stop making a big deal out of it and concentrate on playing the game, after a while you are accustomed to this behaviour and are compensating for the recoil automatically.

You are free to like or dislike, but until a better alternative is found it will stay like this.

On recoil amplitude

It seems to be a matter of taste, I personally find it adequate (I do have shooting experience, not too extensive though). Suggestions/examples of how you think it should be are welcome, but at the same time I'm aware there'll never be a one-size-fits-all solution. This stuff is relative.

Updated by Sickboy over 4 years ago

  • Subject changed from Recoil / Dispersion too high on M4 / M16 / Scar-L family to Recoil on M4 / M16 / Scar-L family

Updated by Sickboy over 4 years ago

Bit coming down to the same as; http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Sound_Highly_subjective_and_personal
I suppose :-)

In any case, if you find/create different/better recoils, we are happy to try them out.
Details in http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Modification

Updated by logan9773 over 4 years ago

Well, even Bohemia has it overdone and kind of weird. I'm hoping someone like Jester, who started the other ticket and has a lot of firearms experience, will take a shot at setting it to reality. I remember when I first shot the AR-15, I was somewhat stunned at how little recoil it had. If you watch some YouTube videos of it on full auto, you'll see it barely moves. In ACE2, its like I'm trying to fire a magnum rifle on full auto :P

Updated by VKing over 4 years ago

Just a word of warning: Stance has a big impact on how well you absorb recoil, so those videos are usually not that good as a reference as the people shooting tend to be a lot more braced than you are in arma.

Updated by Jester814 over 4 years ago

Recoil seems to be 2-3x more than it should be. Recoil on all weapons in ACE is about 2x vanilla, and I feel that vanilla recoil is still a little too much. I have been a marksmanship instructor for the past 6 years. 2 of those years in the US Army, and weapons simply do not recoil straight up and just stay there. Gravity and muscle memory pull your sights back down to fairly close to where they had been with you pulled the trigger. Having to drag my mouse halfway across my mousepad to get my sights realigned on a target at ~200m doesn't feel very realistic to me.

If this is going to be changed, my recommendation would be to switch ACE m16/m4 recoil values to around 2/3ds of vanilla, which would be around 1/3 of ACE recoil values. As for the MK16, I don't use it, and I've never shot it IRL. I'm in a USMC realism unit and all I ever use are the m16 and m4. But I can't imagine a brand new production rifle that is in service with the US Military having so much recoil. It never would have been adopted.

ACE v. Vanilla recoil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ4ePpE_tvs&feature=youtube_gdata

I don't have much experience at firing anything but the M-249 and M-2 on full auto, and neither of those have much recoil in ACE. But from what I've seen of the guys who do shoot full auto, they are fairly easily able to control the recoil and shoot at/around their targets for the full 30 rounds that are in their magazines.

q1184 said:
"Yes it feels a bit unnatural, however this is the only way to make the player participate in re-aiming after a shot with the present up-down recoil model. If it were in my power, I'd make the weapon end up within a cone around the initial direction."

Yes, that would be PERFECT. And it is what I recommended in the beta thread a couple months ago, but was completely ignored. In a 10-15 degree cone around what you were firing at. BIS got the recoil system so wrong but then implemented it anyways. What boggles my mind is that the bigger and heavier weapons recoil acceptably. Even the M240 and m249 have a recoil similar to the "cone".

VKing wrote:

Just a word of warning: Stance has a big impact on how well you absorb recoil, so those videos are usually not that good as a reference as the people shooting tend to be a lot more braced than you are in arma.

In game we are supposed to be USMC and US Army combat arms soldiers. If anyone in the world knows how to absorb recoil it's these guys.

Updated by VKing over 4 years ago

Jester814 wrote:

In game we are supposed to be USMC and US Army combat arms soldiers. If anyone in the world knows how to absorb recoil it's these guys.

Except that there's a difference in stance and bracing between standing on a range and in a combat situation in the field.
I've been in the army too.

Also, just to poke some fun, mind; how do you learn to absorb recoil from fireing a 556? :p

Updated by S2 over 4 years ago

no need to absorb recoil when there is a flashlight/peq-2 on the end of your rifle to keep the muzzle climb down.

Updated by rocko over 4 years ago

  • Target version set to 395

Updated by Mercenary2112 over 4 years ago

S2 wrote:

no need to absorb recoil when there is a flashlight/peq-2 on the end of your rifle to keep the muzzle climb down.

So that's why Travis Haley has all that crap on his rifles....

Updated by rocko over 4 years ago

  • Tracker changed from Bug to Feature

Updated by rocko about 4 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Closed
  • Target version deleted (395)

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