Feature #12692

Improve countermeasures and warning system

Added by Enforcer almost 5 years ago. Updated over 2 years ago.

Status:Assigned Start date:08/04/2010
Priority:Normal Due date:
Assignee:- % Done:

0%

Category:Config
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version: First affected ArmA II version:
Reproduced by another DH user:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using some Mods:No BIForumURL:
I am using: NGUrl:
Reproducible for you:No WIKIurl:
Related to content of DLC:

Description

Obs
  • All weapon systems countermeasure immunity (cmImmunity) set have a 80% probability to ignore a countermeasure (community input needed)
  • The probability seems the same no matter the distance or angle between source and target
  • AI always detects a missile launch/always picked up by the radar
  • AI reacts immediately on the missile launch
  • The current config definitions for the launcher and countermeasure systems might need improvement (community input needed)
Exp
  • Weapon hit probability should be somewhat higher i.e. countermeasure efficiency should be toned down, maybe also depending on distance and heading of launcher and target
  • The probability should be tweaked per weapon systems and per vehicle (in relation to their technology)
  • There should be a probability if an incoming missile is picked up a at all (config value in both weapon and vehicle to indicate the persistence of the technology)
  • Certain countermeasure systems probably can only pick up incoming missile at a given distance. So there should be a cfgVehicles value to define the limit/range similar to irScanRange.
  • There should be some delay before AI reacts/drops countermeasures (could be linked to the config value above)
  • AI should be somewhat configured with random reflexes, also depending on skill
Repro
  1. Run CO
  2. Editor
  3. Load the attached mission
  4. Use the different AA systems at will
  5. You have static and moving targets - both chopper and planes
  6. Unlimited ammo, vehicles take no damage, hit info via side chat

Further Notes
It takes ridiculous amounts missiles to actually shoot down a plane.
Even at point blank range missile range wise it's almost impossible to score a hit.
Ambushes like they are most feared by pilots when they're flying low and currently are a threat to be laughed at.

Above, regarding AI, is written in assumption that no automated defense systems (except from launch detectors) are installed, else they should be made available to the player too (for instant and automatic flare release).

Current config settings:

cfgAmmo

class CfgAmmo
    class Default
        weaponLockSystem = 0;
        cmImmunity = 1;
    class MissileCore: Default
    class MissileBase: MissileCore
    class M_Javelin_AT: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 2";//Missile + IR
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class M_NLAW_AT: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class M_Stinger_AA: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 2";//Missile + IR
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class M_Sidewinder_AA: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 2";//Missile + IR
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class M_Sidewinder_AA_F35: M_Sidewinder_AA
    class M_Strela_AA: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 2";//Missile + IR
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class M_Igla_AA: M_Strela_AA
//        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 2";//Missile + IR
//        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class M_9M311_AA: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 2";//Missile + IR
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class M_Bolide_AA: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "CM_Missile + CM_Lock_Laser";//16 + 4
        cmImmunity = "CMImmunity_GOOD";
    class M_AT2_AT: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 1";//Missile + Visual
        cmImmunity = 0.8;//??
    class AT3: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class M_AT6_AT: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class M_AT9_AT: M_AT6_AT
    class M_AT5_AT: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class M_AT13_AT: M_AT5_AT
    class M_TOW_AT: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class M_TOW2_AT: M_TOW_AT
    class M_47_AT_EP1: M_TOW_AT
    class M_AT10_AT: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class M_AT11_AT: M_AT10_AT
    class M_Hellfire_AT: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 4";//Missile + Laser
        cmImmunity = 0.8;//??
    class M_CRV7_AT: M_Hellfire_AT
    class M_Vikhr_AT: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 4";//Missile + Laser
        cmImmunity = 0.8;//??
    class M_Maverick_AT: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class M_R73_AA: MissileBase
        weaponLockSystem = "16 + 2";//Missile + IR
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class M_Ch29_AT: MissileBase
        //weaponLockSystem undef
        //cmImmunity undef
    class BombCore: Default
    class LaserBombCore: BombCore
    class Bo_GBU12_LGB: LaserBombCore
    class Bo_GBU12_LGB_F35: Bo_GBU12_LGB
    class Bo_FAB_250: BombCore
    class Bo_Mk82: Bo_FAB_250
    class RocketCore: Default
    class RocketBase: RocketCore
    class G_Camel_HE: RocketCore
    class R_Hydra_HE: RocketBase
    class M_CRV7_HEPD: R_Hydra_HE
    class R_57mm_HE: RocketBase
    class R_80mm_HE: RocketBase
    class R_S8T_AT: RocketBase
    class R_M136_AT: RocketBase
    class R_RPG18_AT: RocketBase
    class R_PG7V_AT: RocketBase
    class R_PG7VL_AT: R_PG7V_AT
    class R_PG7VR_AT: R_PG7V_AT
    class R_OG7_AT: R_PG7V_AT
    class R_PG9_AT: RocketBase
    class R_OG9_HE: R_PG9_AT
    class R_SMAW_HEDP: RocketBase
    class R_MEEWS_HEDP: R_SMAW_HEDP
    class R_SMAW_HEAA: R_SMAW_HEDP
    class R_MEEWS_HEAT: R_SMAW_HEAA
    class R_GRAD: RocketBase
    class R_MLRS: RocketBase
    class ArtilleryRocketCore: RocketCore
    class FakeAmmo: BulletCore
    class ShellCore: Default
    class ShellBase: ShellCore
    class Sh_85_HE: ShellBase
    class Sh_85_AP: ShellBase
    class Sh_120_HE: ShellBase
    class Sh_105_HESH: Sh_120_HE
    class Sh_120_SABOT: ShellBase
    class Sh_105_APDS: Sh_120_SABOT
    class Sh_125_HE: ShellBase
    class Sh_125_SABOT: ShellBase
    class Sh_125_IMI: Sh_125_SABOT
    class Sh_40_HE: BulletBase
    class Sh_40_SABOT: Sh_40_HE
    class Sh_105_HE: ShellBase
    class Sh_105_WP: Sh_105_HE
    class Sh_105_SADARM: Sh_105_HE
    class Sh_105_LASER: Sh_105_HE
    class Sh_105_ILLUM: Sh_105_HE
    class Sh_105_SMOKE: Sh_105_HE
    class Sh_100_HE: Sh_105_HE
    class Sh_100_HEAT: Sh_105_HE
    class Sh_122_HE: ShellBase
    class Sh_122_WP: Sh_122_HE
    class Sh_122_SADARM: Sh_122_HE
    class Sh_122_LASER: Sh_122_HE
    class Sh_122_ILLUM: Sh_122_HE
    class Sh_122_SMOKE: Sh_122_HE
    class Sh_81_HE: ShellBase
    class Sh_81_WP: Sh_81_HE
    class Sh_81_ILLUM: Sh_81_HE
    class Sh_82_HE: ShellBase
    class Sh_82_WP: Sh_82_HE
    class Sh_82_ILLUM: Sh_82_HE
    class 120mmHE_M120: ShellBase
    class PG15V: ShellBase
    class Laserbeam: Default
    class BulletCore: Default
    class BulletBase: BulletCore
    class B_9x18_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_9x18_SD: B_9x18_Ball
    class B_9x19_Ball: B_9x18_Ball
    class B_9x19_SD: B_9x19_Ball
    class B_45ACP_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_45ACP_noCartridge_Ball: B_45ACP_Ball
    class B_545x39_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_545x39_SD: BulletBase
    class B_556x45_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_556x45_SD: BulletBase
    class B_9x39_SP5: BulletBase
    class B_12Gauge_74Slug: BulletBase
    class B_762x39_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_19mm_HE: BulletBase
    class B_765x17_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_30mm_AP: BulletBase
    class B_30mmA10_AP: BulletBase
    class B_303_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_556x45_Ball_airLock: B_556x45_Ball
    class B_762x51_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_762x51_3RndBurst: B_762x51_Ball
    class B_762x51_noTracer: B_762x51_Ball
    class B_762x51_SB_SCAR: B_762x51_noTracer
    class B_762x54_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_762x54_noTracer: B_762x54_Ball//SVD+T34MG
    class B_77x56_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_127x99_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_127x99_Ball_noTracer: B_127x99_Ball
    class B_127x99_Ball_noTracer_BAF: B_127x99_Ball_noTracer
    class B_127x107_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_127x108_Ball: BulletBase
    class B_127x108_APHE: BulletBase
    class B_145x115_AP: BulletBase
    class B_20mm_AP: BulletBase
    class B_20mm_AA: BulletBase
    class B_23mm_AA: BulletBase
    class B_23mm_HE: B_23mm_AA
    class B_23mm_AP: B_23mm_AA
    class B_23mm_APHE: BulletBase
    class B_25mm_HE: BulletBase
    class B_25mm_HEI: B_25mm_HE
    class B_25mm_APDS: BulletBase
    class B_30mm_HE: BulletBase
    class B_30x113mm_M789_HEDP: B_30mm_HE
    class B_30mm_AA: BulletBase
    class B_86x70_Ball_noTracer: BulletBase
    class IRStrobeBase: GrenadeCore
    class IRStrobe: IRStrobeBase
    class IR_Strobe_Marker: IRStrobe
    class SmokeShellVehicle: SmokeShell
    class FlareCountermeasure: SmokeShellVehicle
    class SmokeLauncherAmmo: BulletBase
        weaponLockSystem = "1 + 4";//Visual + Laser
    class FlareLauncherAmmo: SmokeLauncherAmmo
    class CMflareAmmo: BulletBase
        weaponLockSystem = 2;//IR
    class CMflare_Chaff_Ammo: CMflareAmmo
        weaponLockSystem = "2 + 8";//IR + Radar

cfgWeapons

class CfgWeapons
    class Default
        weaponLockSystem = 0;
        cmImmunity = 1;

    class LauncherCore: Default

    class Launcher: LauncherCore

    class M136: Launcher
    class RPG7V: Launcher
    class RPG18: Launcher
    class SMAW: Launcher
    class MAAWS: Launcher

    //no weaponLockSystem def?
    //no cmImmunity def?
    class MetisLauncher: Launcher
    class BAF_NLAW_Launcher: Launcher
    class M47Launcher_EP1: Launcher
    class Javelin: Launcher

    class Stinger: Launcher
        weaponLockSystem = 1;//Visual
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class Strela: Launcher
        weaponLockSystem = 1;//Visual
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class Igla: Strela
        //weaponLockSystem = 1;//Visual
        //cmImmunity = 0.8;

    class RocketPods: LauncherCore
    class FFARLauncher: RocketPods
    class FFARLauncher_14: FFARLauncher
    class 57mmLauncher: RocketPods
    class 57mmLauncher_64: 57mmLauncher
    class 57mmLauncher_128: 57mmLauncher
    class 80mmLauncher: RocketPods
    class S8Launcher: 80mmLauncher
    class CRV7_PG: RocketPods//wrong base?
        weaponLockSystem = 4;//Laser
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class CRV7_HEPD: CRV7_PG
    class CRV7_FAT: CRV7_PG
    class CamelGrenades: RocketPods

    class BombLauncher: RocketPods
    class BombLauncherF35: BombLauncher
    class BombLauncherA10: BombLauncher
    class HeliBombLauncher: RocketPods
    class AirBombLauncher: HeliBombLauncher
    class Mk82BombLauncher: RocketPods
    class Mk82BombLauncher_6: Mk82BombLauncher

    class SPG9: RocketPods
    class GRAD: RocketPods
    class GRAD_ACR: GRAD
    class MLRS: RocketPods

    //no weaponLockSystem def?
    //no cmImmunity def?
    class MissileLauncher: LauncherCore

    class AT2Launcher: MissileLauncher
    class AT3Launcher: MissileLauncher
    class AT5Launcher: MissileLauncher
    class AT5LauncherSingle: AT5Launcher
    class 2A46MRocket: AT5Launcher
    class 2A70Rocket: 2A46MRocket
    class AT6Launcher: MissileLauncher
    class AT9Launcher: MissileLauncher
    class AT10LauncherSingle: AT5Launcher
    class AT11LauncherSingle: AT5Launcher
    class AT13LauncherSingle: AT11LauncherSingle

    class TOWLauncher: MissileLauncher
    class TOWLauncherSingle: TOWLauncher
    class SpikeLauncher_ACR: TOWLauncher

    class 9M311Laucher: MissileLauncher
    class Igla_twice: MissileLauncher
    class StingerLauncher_twice: MissileLauncher
    class AALauncher_twice: StingerLauncher_twice
    class RBS70: MissileLauncher
        weaponLockSystem = 1;//Visual
        cmImmunity = 0.2;
    class StingerLaucher: MissileLauncher
        weaponLockSystem = 1;//Visual
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class StingerLaucher_4x: StingerLaucher
    class SidewinderLaucher: MissileLauncher
        weaponLockSystem = 8;//Radar
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class SidewinderLaucher_F35: SidewinderLaucher
    class SidewinderLaucher_AH1Z: SidewinderLaucher
    class SidewinderLaucher_AH64: SidewinderLaucher

    class HellfireLauncher: MissileLauncher
        weaponLockSystem = 4;//Laser
        cmImmunity = 0.8;
    class HellfireLauncher_AH6: HellfireLauncher
    class VikhrLauncher: MissileLauncher
    class R73Launcher: MissileLauncher
    class R73Launcher_2: R73Launcher
    class Ch29Launcher: MissileLauncher
    class Ch29Launcher_Su34: Ch29Launcher
    class MaverickLauncher: MissileLauncher
    class MaverickLauncher_ACR: MaverickLauncher

    class CannonCore: Default
    class M168: CannonCore
    class M197: CannonCore
    class ZPL_20: M197
    class 2A14: CannonCore
    class GAU12: CannonCore
    class 2A42: CannonCore
    class ATKMK44_ACR: 2A42
    class 2A72: CannonCore
    class M242: CannonCore
    class M242BC: M242
    class GSh23L: CannonCore
    class GSh23L_L39: GSh23L
    class GSh302: CannonCore
    class GAU8: CannonCore
    class 2A38M: CannonCore
    class ZiS_S_53: CannonCore
    class M252: CannonCore
    class M120: M252
    class 2B14: CannonCore
    class M230: CannonCore
    class CTWS: CannonCore
    class D10: CannonCore
    class GSh301: CannonCore
    class 2A28: CannonCore
    class M119: CannonCore
    class D30: CannonCore

    class D81: CannonCore//T72_Base
        weaponLockSystem = 4;//Laser
    class 2A70: D81//BMP3
    class 2A46M: D81//T90
    class D81CZ: D81//T72_ACR
    class M256: CannonCore//M1AX
        weaponLockSystem = 4;//Laser
    class M68: M256//Stryker MGS+
    class AZP85: CannonCore//ZSU
        weaponLockSystem = 8;//Radar

cfgVehicles

cfgVehicles
    class All
        lockDetectionSystem = 0;
        incommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 0;

    class Air: AllVehicles
    class Helicopter: Air
    class Ka60_Base_PMC: Helicopter
    class UH1_Base: Helicopter
    class BAF_Merlin_HC3_D: Helicopter
        LockDetectionSystem = 1.11821e+006;//faulty
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class UH1H_base: Helicopter
    class Ka137_Base_PMC: Helicopter
    class CH47_base_EP1: Helicopter
        LockDetectionSystem = 2;//IR
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class AH6_Base_EP1: Helicopter
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
//        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 0;
    class AH6J_EP1: AH6_Base_EP1
    class AH6X_EP1: AH6_Base_EP1
    class UH60_Base: Helicopter
        lockDetectionSystem = "8 + 4";//Radar + Laser
//        incommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 0;
    class Mi17_base: Helicopter
//        LockDetectionSystem = 0;
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile

    class Mi24_Base: Helicopter
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class Mi24_Base_RU: Mi24_Base
    class Mi24_Base_CDF: Mi24_Base
    class Mi24_V: Mi24_Base_RU
    class Mi24_P: Mi24_Base_RU
    class Mi24_D: Mi24_Base_CDF
    class AH1_Base: Helicopter
    class AH1Z: AH1_Base
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class Kamov_Base: Helicopter
    class Ka52: Kamov_Base
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class AW159_Lynx_BAF: Helicopter
        LockDetectionSystem = "8 + 4";//Radar + Laser
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class AH64_base_EP1: Helicopter
        lockDetectionSystem = "8 + 4";//Radar + Laser
        incommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class BAF_Apache_AH1_D: AH64D_EP1

    class Plane: Air
    class An2_Base_EP1: Plane
    class MV22: Plane

    class C130J: Plane
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class L39_base: Plane
    class Su25_base: Plane
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
//        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 0;
    class Su39: Su25_base
    class L159_base: Plane
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
//        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 0;
    class A10: Plane
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
//        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 0;
    class Su34: Plane
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class AV8B2: Plane
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class F35_base: Plane
    class F35B: F35_base
        LockDetectionSystem = 8;//Radar
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile

    class Tank: LandVehicle
    class APC: Tank
    class Tracked_APC: Tank
    class AAV: Tracked_APC
    class BMP2_Base: Tracked_APC
    class BMP2_HQ_TK_EP1: BMP2_HQ_Base
    class BMP3: Tracked_APC
    class BVP1_BASE: BMP2_Base
    class M113_Base: Tank
    class T34: Tank
    class T55_Base: Tank
    class M2A2_Base: Tank
        LockDetectionSystem = 4;//Laser
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class M6_EP1: M2A2_Base
    class T72_Base: Tank
        LockDetectionSystem = 4;//Laser
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class BAF_FV510_D: Tank
    class T90: Tank
    class M1A1: Tank
        LockDetectionSystem = 4;//Laser
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//missile
    class M1A2_TUSK_MG: M1A1
    class ZSU_Base: Tank
    class 2S6M_Tunguska: Tank
    class MLRS: Tank

    class Pandur2_ACR: Pandur2_Base (Wheeled_APC)
        LockDetectionSystem = 4;//"CM_Lock_Laser";
        IncommingMisslieDetectionSystem = 16;//"CM_Missile";

CM_Test.desert_e.7z (1.7 kB) kju, 09/10/2012 05:32


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #12203: [OA] Add more damagable systems and indicators for fixed-... Assigned 07/21/2010
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #20489: Beeping noise when acquiring missile lock is WAY too loud Assigned 06/19/2011
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #67954: RWR delay, use of countermeasures Assigned 12/16/2012
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #15976: Make countermeasure flares have an hostile radar signatur... Assigned 12/16/2010
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #15980: Airplanes survive too many AA missile hits Assigned 12/16/2010
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #16255: Disable auto locking of infantry launchers or reduce auto... Assigned 12/26/2010
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #17821: manual disabling of aircraft auto flare required Assigned 02/22/2011 06/01/2011
related to Arma 2: Community Configuration Project - Bug #67412: Su25 is to have flare and chaff, not just flare Closed 12/11/2012
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #48709: A-10 Not Detecting Enemy AA Missiles Feedback 09/12/2012
related to Arma 2: Community Configuration Project - Bug #63277: The MV22 and UH1Y are lacking flare countermeasures Closed 11/05/2012
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #27242: Early warning receivers in various aircraft do not work s... Assigned 12/21/2011
related to Arma 2: Community Configuration Project - Bug #67317: Several choppers and planes are missing lockDetectionSyst... Resolved 12/10/2012
related to Arma 2: Community Configuration Project - Task #28525: Summary ticket of CIT config related issues of Arma 2 and... New 02/08/2012
duplicated by ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #13472: Countermeasures too effective Duplicate 09/03/2010

History

Updated by kju almost 5 years ago

  • Category set to Config
  • Status changed from New to Feedback

While I agree and the config value seem not to be tweaked at all per vehicle type so far,
it would be good to get some hard data on that.

So if anyone is into this, please share it.

Updated by Enforcer almost 5 years ago

I don't think you can find data on how fast warning systems activate on approaching missiles due to their sensitive nature.

There are enough reports of pilots shot down with IR missiles who didn't even know they were targeted until they were hit.

http://www.womensmemorial.org/Education/WHM08KitUSAF.html
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Stories1/001-100/0016_A-10-battle-damage/story0016.htm

Can't find the original where the pilot said she suddenly got hit without warning. The event is already quite old after all.

There is a very high probability of getting hit especially when flying low. That's why pilots fear flying in low altitudes because of the low or no warning time and of course the greater threat MANPADs pose in short range.

Updated by Fireball almost 5 years ago

Actually, the warning system shouldn't recognize incoming IR missiles at all, since they're passive.

OTOH, I've been flying in Evo yesterday and whenever I got attacked by AA missiles it was within 1-2 seconds which I got hit since warning - the enemy launched the missiles while being 1km away or something and they seem quite realistically modeled in terms of speed, so I wasn't able to react anyway. I can't tell about MANPADs though.

Updated by Enforcer almost 5 years ago

MANPADS are man portable air defense systems ( Stinger, Strela etc. ).
Is Evo running with OA included or is it still ArmA 2 only? Didn't play the mission for a hundred years. In OA the pilots just drop hundreds of countermeasures ( which is ridiculously huge amount when i read that they try to avoid adding too much weight on a plane and they have a limited amount of space, too ). In normal ArmA 2 the missiles have a high probability of missing when you attack from the side even if you have locked on. Also when the pilot is skilled enough to jink he can prevent beeing hit.

There is a countermeasure system that tracks IR missiles in almost the same way as AA missiles track planes.
Most systems have a high failure rate. They track incoming AA missiles via smoke trail, IR signature or another invisible spectrum and "noise"(?). Seems most pilots drop countermeasures as a precaution.
From what you see on A-10 training videos they attack a target, pull up and drop countermeasures while changing directions to fool any possible missiles that might be targeting them.

Updated by Fireball almost 5 years ago

Enforcer wrote:

MANPADS are man portable air defense systems ( Stinger, Strela etc. ).

I do know what they are, but I didn't test them in OA.

Is Evo running with OA included or is it still ArmA 2 only? Didn't play the mission for a hundred years.

That Evo was OA (OA only even, I think).

In OA the pilots just drop hundreds of countermeasures ( which is ridiculously huge amount when i read that they try to avoid adding too much weight on a plane and they have a limited amount of space, too ).

Actually they do that anyway in reality. Not hundreds exactly, but certainly dozens - what's the cost of a few flares/chaffs compared to a downed plane? Normally planes/choppers have 25-30 of each flares and/or chaffs aboard, which enables them (mostly) to expend as many as necessary.

There is a countermeasure system that tracks IR missiles in almost the same way as AA missiles track planes.
Most systems have a high failure rate. They track incoming AA missiles via smoke trail, IR signature or another invisible spectrum and "noise"(?).

Didn't know that.

Seems most pilots drop countermeasures as a precaution.

Yes, they do; it's part of the attack protocol even they drop chaffs on the attack ingress way (to avoid lock-on by RADAR) and drop flares on the egress (climb and turn) way to dodge IR guided missiles. Apart from that there are other programs against different threat patterns.

See: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/ALE-47 and http://www.baesystems.com/BAEProd/groups/public/documents/bae_publication/bae_pub_eis_ale.pdf

Updated by Fireball almost 5 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned

Updated by kju almost 5 years ago

  • Due date set to 09/01/2010
  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback

Updated by Enforcer almost 5 years ago

Enforcer wrote:

That might not be correct, the system still needs some time to analize a threat and might also have a limited range. Something like creating a bubble around the aircraft where incoming missiles are detected or the longer the missile has to fly the easier is can be detected has to be implemented.

Ok, i propose a time of 2-4 seconds until you get a warning when somebody launches a missile in your direction. Some might say "OMG THAT'S WAY TO LONG!" - That's a small sacrifice for having the ability to attack 3 targets in 1 second. ( next target - fire - next target - fire - next target - fire ). In RL it takes time and they can't do a barrel roll, drop countermeasures and attack multiple targets from 500m like you can do in OA with the current plane configs.

Updated by Fireball almost 5 years ago

  • Due date deleted (09/01/2010)
  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned

Updated by wolfbite over 4 years ago

Can you also add that shilka's and other radar guided weaponry should set off the RWR when they lock onto you. Most aircraft dont have launch flash detectors so I.R missiles like Stinger/strela shouldnt give you a warning as far as I'm aware with most aircraft.

Updated by Whisper over 4 years ago

In ArmAVerse context, it may be OK to consider all aircrafts being equipped with radar and IR detecting countermeasures, at least for rapid implementation without having to figure out the type of missile launched (IR or radar) which is today not defined in configuration.
With this in mind, the current system should be toned down. 2 possible ways :
  • Delay the actual warning after missile launch, or only inside a certain radius of aircraft
  • Delay the chaff/flare "effectiveness", ie they wouldn't decoy just after being launched, but few moments later only
    or combination of both above.

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

From sprayer_faust:

Once the missiles are locked (especially the new generation), it is hard to shake them off - they also have UV tracking (stinger) or magnetic fuse (igla) to distinguish between target and dummies.

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

From Mr Burns:

I find AI using countermeasures far more effective than humans.
That´s mainly due to AI not needing to watch radar or listen for warning signals, they get an instant order to fire flares from the engine and that's it. If the players missile isn't fired at a good angle, it´ll be deflected.

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

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Updated by kju over 2 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by Fireball over 2 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Adjusted expected text according to consent so far.

If a launch detection system such as AWRFLD comes in play, it could be quite possible that a missile launch is detected as soon it's ignited; source:

http://www.smdc.army.mil/factsheets/awrfld.pdf

Unfortunately the URL seems to be unavailable currently, hence I found Google Docs to have it cached - it requires a Google account though.

It's based on RF signals which are emitted during launch and explosion of a missile which are characteristically along the range of 100 MHz up to tens of GHz. It can even pick up RPG launches.

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by Fireball over 2 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

  • Subject changed from Countermeasures and warning system needs to be toned down a bit. ( MANPADS = laughingstock) to Improve countermeasures and warning system
  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Updated by kju over 2 years ago

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