Bug #11850

Falanga missile in Mi-24 doesn't hit targets

Added by Vipera over 4 years ago. Updated over 2 years ago.

Status:Assigned Start date:07/11/2010
Priority:Normal Due date:06/05/2011
Assignee:Dwarden % Done:

0%

Category:Config
Target version:-
Affected ArmA II version:1.60 RC First affected build:
Reproduced by another DH user:Yes First affected ArmA II version:
I am using some Mods:No Single / Multi Player?:
I am using: BIForumURL:
Reproducible for you:Yes NGUrl:
Related to content of DLC: WIKIurl:

Description

Repro:
1. Open editor, any map.
2. Place Mi-24 with player as pilot and place one M1A1 in a distance.
3. Try to hit M1A1 using Falanga missiles. (I can't do this)

PS. If I replace Mi-24 to Apache and M1A1 to T-72 I can hit target using guided missiles.


Falanga missile doesn't hit targets. Missile hits ground around locked target.
Is there any trick to shoot Falanga missiles?

Mi-24_Falanga_test.Takistan.zip (951 Bytes) Vipera, 09/18/2010 05:12

ArmA2ExpInt_2010-09-18_18-09-42-32.avi (2.7 MB) kju, 09/18/2010 16:15

ArmA2ExpInt_2010-09-18_18-10-20-35.avi (1 MB) kju, 09/18/2010 16:15

_Missile_fix_falanga.rar (1003 Bytes) Xerxes17, 10/10/2010 06:41


Related issues

related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #11200: Rockets 9M117M1 Arkan / 9M113 Konkurs / 9M119M Refleks no... Duplicate 06/13/2010
related to ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #11088: Manually controlled (LOS riders) missiles simulation Duplicate 06/08/2010
related to Arma 2: Community Configuration Project - Bug #59747: Missiles flying much too fast Closed 10/18/2012
duplicated by ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #13672: The Falanga and Shturm ATGM missiles dont hit targets whe... Duplicate 09/13/2010
duplicated by ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Feature #16817: Improvements to Falanga,Ataka and Shturm missiles Duplicate 01/19/2011
duplicated by ARMA2 Community Issue Tracker - Bug #15067: The Falanga in the Mi 24D still wont hit locked on targets Duplicate 11/12/2010

History

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

  • Due date set to 07/25/2010
  • Category set to Config
  • Status changed from New to Feedback

Updated by Vipera over 4 years ago

xxx

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

I was told that this type of missile has very bad hit rate;
especially on moving targets.

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

  • Due date changed from 07/25/2010 to 10/01/2010
  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned

Updated by Vipera over 4 years ago

When I placed targets I set their ammo and fuel to zero. So, I was trying to hit static target with no luck.

Updated by Fireball over 4 years ago

  • Assignee set to Dwarden
  • Reproducible for you set to No

Updated by bazeye over 4 years ago

The MI 24 Shturm ATGM has the same problem.

Updated by Dwarden over 4 years ago

  • Status changed from Assigned to Feedback

please retry with public beta build 73251

Updated by Tozmeister over 4 years ago

Falanga A and B are given as 67% chance of a first round hit with manual guidance.

Falanga C is 90% and uses SACLOS guidance.

Updated by Vipera over 4 years ago

I can't see improvements. Here is my test mission. You start as a pilot in Mi-24. Try to hit moving truck.

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

What about static/non moving targets you spoke of before?

Updated by Vipera over 4 years ago

I can't hit static targets either.

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

Works fine here. See the attached videos.

You need to make sure that your helo is hovering and that you aim right.

I was told that this Mi24 version and the rocket is real life also very bad.
It can hardly adjust its flight past.

Updated by Vipera over 4 years ago

It looks like it works. I was trying on M1A1 and didn't see damages on tanks. I replaced tanks by static trucks and was able to hit them.

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

Good.

There is still the question, if the missile is meant to have this little maneuverability.
Maybe someone can get some "hard evidence" from some source?

Updated by zGuba over 4 years ago

Currently used munitions for Mi-24D are 9M17P and 9M17MP. Both use SACLOS method and can hit ~90% of targets at firing ranges. I doubt if any serious army uses rusty 3M11 missiles nowadays.

Updated by Xerxes17 over 4 years ago

"tracklead = 0.3;
trackoversteer = 0.3;
maneuvrability = 4;"
These thee varibales need to be put up and suddenly it can actually hit targets. I tested it at .75, .75 and 6 respectively and the behavior of falling short/far of target stops completely. Attacked is addon that performs fix.

I found that .5 for tracklead and trackoversteer would also cause the same over/undershoot issue.

Updated by Dwarden over 4 years ago

the missile was quite unrealiable due it's complexity vs used parts ...

Updated by vasmkd over 4 years ago

I still can't hit anything with the Mi-24D's missles
The Mi-24V is pretty much as bad too
4 missles and impossible to kill a single tank or APC most the time

Updated by zGuba over 4 years ago

  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.52.71612 STEAM to 1.56.76134

Updated by zGuba over 4 years ago

  • Status changed from Feedback to Assigned
  • Reproduced by another DH user changed from No to Yes
  • I am using set to CO (A2+OA)
  • Reproducible for you changed from No to Yes

Updated by zGuba over 4 years ago

Dwarden wrote:

the missile was quite unrealiable due it's complexity vs used parts ...

that's why it got replaced with 9M17P and 9M17MP across the world. I doubt if 3M11 was ever shot by Mi-24 in combat.

I will call it DESIGN BUG.

Updated by Nyles over 4 years ago

Agreed with zGuba. As written in a post on the forums about this at the following address:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=111752&page=5

Nyles wrote:

Now looking at it purely from a game balance and user expectations point of view:

The MI-24 is the only attack chopper available to Takistan (compared to Cobra and Apache on the US side). Takistan should have a reliable gunship available, which can at least to some degree compete with those available to the US forces.

Either it is a really bad design choice to only give it missiles that miss most of the time - even if true to reallife - or it's a bug that should get fixed (for example by dropping the missiles and put AT-9er on it instead or by improving chances to hit).

Updated by kju over 4 years ago

  • Due date changed from 10/01/2010 to 03/01/2011

Gameplay wise and in the user perspective the current state is not desirable nor understandable.
It only leads people to believe that it is buggy. I hope it can be improved.

Updated by Krycek about 4 years ago

Hey guys,I know these missiles weren't the most precise ones but that is true only about the old soviet ones.Right now in the game they are useless.They act more like unguided missiles and this has impact on the gameplay.I have problems hitting anything with them and I'm talking about stationary targets,the AI Hinds barely uses them(probabily AI knows they're crap;) ) and when they do they miss 99,99% of the time with full AI skill.This makes the player and AI Hinds impaired and not able to use their full arsenal:

1.Most of the time they will use their unguided missiles,this is very dangerous for the Hind because the pilots could be killed very easy since AI descend very low to engage the targets,not to mention descending too low could hit trees or buildings.
2.Kinda weird to see the AI actually hit 80-90% of the time with their unguided missiles,but when finally decide to use the guided ones failling to hit a single target with all 4 of them.You could have 10 of them and wouldn't hit a tank if it was in front of you.
3.No difference between MI-24 and an MI-17 with rocket pods because right now they do the same thing.An Hind is a gunship first and transport second.

What could be done:
Since I believe by now it's an engine limitation to make the AI flying attack choppers stay at a safe distance and engage,at least substantially improve the hit ratio with these missiles especially since the Hinds in the game has only 4 of them.Make the AI pilots to prefer using them first and the unguided ones second against vehicles or armor(like the Ka-52,Apache and Cobra pilots do).This could avoid Hind pilots getting killed or getting splattered in trees so easily when descending with the unguided ones.
Afected missiles:Falanga,Shturm,Ataka.
This happens in 1.57 and in the latest beta 77159.

Updated by Nyles about 4 years ago

Can we please get this fixed?

The missiles should be just as effective as any other guided missile fired from helicopters in this game. The simulation behind it is partially too powerful and partially too weak for certain missiles, so I think it is no problem, if the Falanga missiles would be hitting more frequently than the real thing.

Right now, they cannot hit anything EVER.

Game balance should be achieved from projectile speed, time to lock-on, damage and explosion radius instead.

This should be a very quick and safe config adjustment. I fail to understand why this has not been looked at by now.

Updated by kju about 4 years ago

  • Due date changed from 03/01/2011 to 05/01/2011
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.56.76134 to 1.57.76815
  • CPU deleted (Please specify!)
  • Audio card deleted (Please specify!)
  • Size of OS swap file deleted (Please specify!)

Updated by zGuba about 4 years ago

  • Due date changed from 05/01/2011 to 06/05/2011
  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.57.76815 to 1.58.78473

Updated by Krycek over 3 years ago

  • Affected ArmA II version changed from 1.58.78473 to 1.60 RC
  • I am using deleted (CO (A2+OA))

Dwarden Im sorry but do you guys hate this chopper or it's at the real bottom of your list?
Since Arma series this chopper has been gimped to hell.I'm on 1.60 RC2 and have the current results:

If I'm the pilot Ataka missile hit ratio improved slightly,Shturm and Falanga accuracy is still worse.I'm talking about straight line attack run,so no crazy maneveurs.
If AI is piloting them then it's completely crap even with max skill.AI piloting Hinds are never using the guided missiles or rare(very rare).Instead they rely on unguided ones which aren't very good at them either(again on max skill).
Just put up a T72 and a BMP on UTES and a Hind as enemy and watch the freak circus.

The complete crap accuracy with guided missiles(sorry I don't buy the "but-but these are old missiles") coupled with the AI using them rarely on it's own and other problems with this chopper like it's engine gets hit so easily (bugged hit points?) makes the MI-24 a very pretty cardboard chopper.
Not to mention some factions like CDF and Takistan only have this for gunship support which means Takis and CDF actually don't have chopper support.
Seriously compare this chopper with AH-1,Apache or Ka-52 and it's a joke.Yes those are dedicated attack choppers,but I don't remember the Hind being so handicapped in real life.

It's good that you guys teached(fixed)the AI how to land them,but how about you teach them how to use those guided missiles on the Hind?

Updated by magnus28 almost 3 years ago

Kju, Dwarden can we get an update on whether or not this issue is getting fixed?

I have tried with current verions of combined ops and I can verify that the Falanga missile does not hit targets.
Is it possible to try the hotfix like one guy suggested a year ago?

The Russian Airforce changed their main attack helicopter from the Havok BACK to the hind! Even the old hind 'd' variants have recieved upgrades to avionics and missle platforms.
The Falanga 'c' missiles are 90% hit prob on moving targets, close to 100% on static.

The Russians stil have most of there hind arsenal in the "D" variant. I'm sure they would upgrade them to be as effective as the chassis would allow them to be.
please fix this missle.

And increase hitpoints of Hind so 7.62 fire doesn't rip it apart and make it crash after 3 hits PLEASE.

TY.

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